What's Trust Got to Do With it?

00:00

Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.

00:30

It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated. 

Marlee:

Today's topic is What's Trust Got to Do With it? Got to do with it. That's right. What's trust, but an important thing for romancipation. Okay, fine. I'm not a singer. All right. I tried. Okay. Trust. This is a biggie for me and for I think everybody. Trust is one of the cornerstones of the foundation of a healthy relationship.

1:03

Lis:

I think it's like the most crucial building block. Honestly.

Marlee:

Yeah. To me the four are respect, trust, mutual, admiration, and communication. For me, trust is such a huge part of respect, mutual admiration and communication.

1:22 

Right? 

Lis:

Yeah. Yeah. 

Marlee:

If you don't have trust, you're not going to have the other one. 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

So I agree with you. Hugely important. Because you know what? If you can trust your partner, you can be open with feelings, your thoughts, even your actions. 

Lis:

You can be vulnerable. 

Marlee:

You can be vulnerable. Exactly. Without, right.

01:38

Lis:

That's such a hard thing. 

Marlee:

That's right. Without fear that anything's going to be used against you in the future. Like you said, it allows you to show a vulnerability. It allows you to change, to evolve. 

Lis:

You feel safe. 

Marlee:

You feel safe, you feel secure. Right? 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

These are such important things.

01:58

I also think that if you trust your partner, joint decisions, which is really what a partnership is, when you're in a relationship, there's always going to be joint decisions. They're so much easier to make. Because even if you don't know, you trust your partner to make right decisions, to fill in for where you have gaps of knowledge, right?

02:16

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Or where, you maybe you don't have an opinion. And also, even if whatever consequence results as a matter of like those decisions, whether they're negative or positive, If you trust that person, you don't punish them for it. Do you know if it's negative and if it's positive, you, you celebrate and, and it just reinforces the trust.

02:38

So, for me, trust has everything to do with a healthy relationship. 

Lis:

Yep. 150,000,000%. And it's not something that necessarily comes easily. 

Marlee:

No. Right. 

Lis:

Yeah. I mean that, to me is something that you have to build up to. It's not, and maybe I'm not a trusting person like by nature I tend to make people earn my trust.

03:04

Marlee:

Absolutely. 

Lis:

And you know, so it's not something I just give freely like, oh, we just met, I trust you. I'll give you this kind of information. 

Marlee:

Oh girl, I'll tell you girl. 

Lis:

Right? I mean because, and listen, like I used to kind of be willy-nilly with my trust. I did. I trusted a lot of people with a lot of things, and you get burned and you kind of take that with you and, and roll with it.

03:24

I mean, I'm talking more in friendships than I am necessarily romantic partnerships. If you trust the wrong people, you can definitely get burned and get hurt. You know, and then you take that with you. But you are vulnerable when you trust somebody. 

Marlee:

You are. But I mean, listen, I agree with you.

03:41

Trust has to be earned. It cannot be instantaneous. Listen, you just brought up such an incredibly critical point when you first meet somebody, the idea that you should trust is insane to me, trust comes from knowing a person. From communicating with them, from observing them, from seeing them actually do what they say they're going to do, follow through.

04:14 

Lis:

Ah, that's huge right there. 

Marlee:

Consistency. Trust is huge. And I agree with you. I think that a lot of women tend to be much more trusting in nature. I think that from very early on, we're encouraged to trust people. And I, like you said, I think that in our friendships we're encouraged to trust and we end up getting burned often.

04:36

And then as we grow older and we start getting into romantic relationships again, I think trust becomes a big issue. It really does. And like you said, once you've exposed yourself with that vulnerability and you've trusted the moment somebody violates that trust, it is so hard to recover. 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

I think it's the hardest thing to recover from.

04:58

Lis:

It's so hard to get back rebuilding that level and that foundation. It's almost a non-starter for me. 

Marlee:

Oh, I agree. 

Lis:

Like once somebody breaks your trust, I, I almost feel like I've never been able to really fully go back. 

Marlee:

No, I think the relationship's dead in the water. Yeah, I agree.

05:16

Gosh, you're just so right on this. Oh my goodness. I agree completely. I think that trust is one of those things that when you are first really attracted to a person, when you're really into a person, when you're feeling the person, you really want to trust them. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

Do you know what I mean? You really want to trust them.

05:35

And I think that obviously trust is a huge part of sex. And really having a good time with sex. And we had talked about in a different podcast.

Lis:

You hit the nail on that one. 

Marlee:

Yes. About you know, how quickly do you have sex with a person? And both of us mentioned trust. And you know the moment you are willing to expose yourself on that level, and that's a hugely vulnerable level.

06:05

You are opening yourself up to a lot of different things and I firmly believe and  this is part of the whole romancipation thing, it's just all consistent with trust. The reason I would never do an immediate hookup is again, not because I wouldn't want to, not because I'm not attracted to the person, but because I just can't possibly trust them enough.

06:28

I don't know them well enough to trust that I'm going to be safe and secure and that I'm going to have a good time. Does that, does that make sense? 

Lis:

Yes. No, it does. 

Marlee:

So, in terms of sexual interaction, I think trust is huge. I think in terms of financial matters, combining or commingling of your assets when you get into a partnership.

06:48 

Wow. If there's no trust.

Lis:

Well, that's huge. 

Marlee:

You get wiped out. If the person screws you over, you get wiped out. Let's talk about trust in, like you said, being able to communicate your feelings about something. If you don't trust the person, if you think they're going to use your feelings against you or mock you, or belittle you, you are not going to be honest. 

Lis:

Right.

07:17

Marlee:

If you don't trust them to like treat you with the respect and the admiration you deserve. Right? So these things are all just so critical when you violate a person's trust, you've cut them to the core.

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

You have. It's interesting to me because I do think that trust is one of these concepts. Tell me if you, if you feel the same way, where people they think that it should be instantaneous.

07:53 

Lis:

Oh my God. Marlee. I was definitely going to say that. 

Marlee:

And they think…

Lis:

They're thinking they're owed it. 

Marlee:

They're owed. I was just going to say that it doesn't have to be earned, that it's owed to them, but they're entitled. I was thinking the word that they're entitled to it. I find that fascinating.

08:07

I find that fascinating. I would never assume in a romantic relationship. I am entitled to the other person's trust. I would assume, and I wouldn't think they were a broken person if they didn't trust me immediately now, but let me just qualify this. If I met somebody and we were talking, we went on a few dates and they called and I didn't pick up.

08:34

And then they started berating me that I must be cheating on them. No, no, no, no, no. That that's a red flag. That's a whole other thing. 

Lis:

That's not about trust. 

Marlee:

That's not about trust, that's about control. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

That's a completely different thing. Trust has to be earned. 

Lis:

Yeah.

Marlee:

I do think that you can earn trust rather quickly.

08:52

I do think that there's certain behaviors, there's a certain consistency and continuity that allows trust to be built up quite quickly. But I also think that trust can be erased. 

Lis:

I was going to say very quickly as well, it's instantaneous. right? 

Marlee:

Yes. 

Lis:

I mean, it's because, to your point, like it can take a while to build up.

09:14

It could be a quick kind of evolution of you just trust this person. You have a gut instinct. Like there's, you know, there's something there. I'm definitely very quick to want to feel like I can trust somebody that I care about or that I've connected with. Yeah, so I've definitely, I've been burned a few times, but I will say that I have a pretty good gut instinct on people and…

09:40

…when and how I can trust them. But the second that that trust is violated, I'm also very quick to completely just cut the cord. And, move on. 

Marlee:

I don't think that's actually a bad thing.  I’ don’t.

Lis:

I know. And it's probably not, but you know, at the same time and, and not necessarily good. Listen, romantic partnerships to me that you break that trust, you're just dead to me.

10:07

The friendship piece of it, I've definitely struggled with a little bit more because, you know, I don't know, like there's people that you just want to be able to trust. So it depends on like the level, you know what I mean? 

Marlee:

There's, there's level, there's different levels of trust. I also think that depending on where you are, in your relationship.

10:24

Lis:

Yeah. Yeah. 

Marlee:

You have the different levels of trust. I think that sense that we had just earlier discussed of an entitlement of being trusted early in a relationship is kind of outrageous. I think though, after you've been together a while, if you are choosing to stay with that person, right, you're actively deciding to stay with that person, but you're never giving them the benefit of earning any trust…

10:47

…with you, you're doing them a disservice and you're doing yourself a disservice. And at that point I would say cut it, leave. Because if you, for whatever reason, if it's what they're doing that's making you not trust them or if it's your own baggage, that's making you not trust them. If they've not actually actively done anything,...

11:10 

…but you're still not trusting them, right? 

Lis:

There's still something there. 

Marlee:

You're, checking their social media constantly because your ex cheated on you. You know what I mean? You won't let them have your password or you insist that they don't know how much money you make.

11:24

You know what I mean? Like, whatever it is. Like at a certain point, if that information isn't easily flowing between the two of you, there's a problem. It's a trust problem. And you know, it might be that neither person actually did anything to the other person. It might be their own baggage. 

Lis:

Yeah, that's right. 

Marlee:

Yeah. It might not be what they actually did, but I think that that's an example of the relationship is never going to go where you want it to go.

11:50 

If you can't trust the person and they can't trust you because you've been damaged from the past, that's when you need to take a step back and say, okay, I need to work on myself. I need to figure out why I'm having such issues with trust. That's where you go to a therapist.  Because if you do continue a relationship where you are not feeling trusted or you do not trust…

12:15

…it's like walking on eggshells.

Lis:

That's the worst feeling. It really is.

Marlee:

It's a constant feeling. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

It's an awful feeling. And it's not the kind of feeling of vulnerability that I think you and I are talking about when we're talking about vulnerability. We're talking about the kind of vulnerability where you feel so safe, you're willing to try something new, you're willing to stretch and expand.

12:39

That is very different from if you feel you don't trust the person or the person doesn't trust you, and you feel incredibly vulnerable to attack. And so you're almost in this heightened state of like, are they going to get mad at me? Are they going to accuse me? Are they going to do this if I do this, are they going to say this about me?

12:56

You know, I mean, did he do this? Did she do that? That is an awful way to live, and I think a lot of people end up in those kinds of relationships. I don't get it. I don't fault them for it. Maybe they don't even recognize that's what happened. 

Lis:

I think they don't recognize it a lot of times. I think you're so right.

13:13

I feel like it's this almost because they've dealt with it for so long, or lived through it for so long that it's almost as though they don't even see through that, that veil of, you know, what it could be like. 

Marlee:

Yeah. That makes sense. 

Lis:

And it is horrible, like watching people kind of live like that or constantly checking their phone when you're out to dinner.

13:37

Like, oh, well, I have to pick up if, if so-and-so calls. 

Marlee:

That's right. 

Lis:

Because, or I'm checking this because I don't know, he's been acting a little shady and like, you know, I'm just checking to see like who's liked his post and hours going through these things. 

Marlee:

It's a huge waste of energy.

13:52

Lis:

Just like a time suck. And you could literally be living in the moment and be having an enjoyable experience with whoever you're with at dinner that you're checking your phone or you know, at home with your significant other. And it's just, to me, if you have to live like that day in and day out, you need a reality check.

14:11

Marlee:

Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's a horrible way to live. I would say that trust is something that has a natural progression. If somebody says to you when you first meet them in a romantic situation, you should trust me. Run the other way. Because here's the deal, if you are a trustworthy person, it becomes really obvious.

14:37 

Lis:

You show it.

Marlee:

Really quickly because it is something that you live by. Do you know what I mean? It's like a code. It's like personal responsibility. It's almost a code that you live by if you're one of these people where if your friend says, I'm trusting you not to repeat what I just said, and you're an individual who does not divulge somebody else's confidences, guess what?

14:58 

And that's just how you live your life. It becomes very apparent very quickly because as other people interact with you, as you interact with your partner, they start to realize, wow, this is a trustworthy person. This is a person who does what they say they're going do. This is a person who listens to what I'm saying and doesn't use it against me.

15:17 

This is a person who if I have had past issues with trust, is like sending me signals through what they do and what they say that their patient and they're trustworthy. 

Lis:

They're a safe place. 

Marlee:

Yes. And they're a safe place. Yes. And I see that. And that is how trust is built. Sometimes it goes quicker, sometimes it goes a little more slowly.

15:40

I would encourage people to practice trust because you actually have to practice it. Because it's very tempting to sometimes not be trustworthy, but if you actively own it, if you actively say, you know what? I am going to be a trustworthy person for my partner, and I am going to insist that they be a trustworthy person to me.

16:07

Right. So what you're asking for, you're also delivering. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

I think. That is huge in a relationship, and I think that is what leads to a very mutually beneficial, healthy, and long-term relationship. If that's what you're looking for. Even if you're not looking for something long-term, I think you can have a great experience with somebody if you really trust that person.

16:32 

I think if there's trust in a relationship, you can even break up in a really great way. 

Lis:

Ooh. Yes.

Marlee:

Because if you say to them, you know, I just don't think it's working out anymore because we want different things. They believe you. They don't think you've got a secret second person on the side, right? They don't think you've been lying to them this whole time, that in fact you don't like them and you weren't attracted to them and you didn't respect them.

16:57

They actually like, okay, I get it. We've now spent however much time together and we've recognized we want different things. You know, and we're just probably not the right match for each other. But what a great way to end things. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

What a great way to feel like you're leaving something as a whole person that hasn't been wronged.

17:16 

It just didn't work out. And if you have trust, respect, communication, mutual admiration.

Lis:

Your stuff's not winding up on the lawn. 

Marlee:

Yeah. But it, but it's true. 

Lis: 

But it is true.

It's not. What's love got to do? It's what's trust got to do with it. 

Lis:

Got to do with it. 

Marlee:

Everything. 

It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.

17:41

Marlee:

It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. Today's topic. When My Partner Does Not Make Our Relationship a Priority Over Work. 

Lis:

Ah-huh. Wow. This is a good one. 

Marlee:

All right. 

Lis:

I feel like this is a big one for a lot of people. 

Marlee:

I, uh, you know what?

18:02

You wanna go first? 

Lis:

I'll, I'll take it. 

Marlee:

Yeah, go for it. 

Lis:

All right. The partner is feeling pressure at work. They feel like they need to keep up with a certain lifestyle. They're avoiding coming home because it's stressful there.

Marlee:

Oh. 

Lis:

They don't want to argue, so they're staying away. 

Marlee:

Oh, good one. 

Lis:

That is what they saw their parents doing as well.

18:23 

They feel stressed about finances. 

Marlee:

Yeah. Yeah. 

Lis:

Maybe they're having an extra marital affair.

Marlee:

Oh, oh, wow. You went there. I like it. All right. Okay. I'm now going to give you mine. 

Lis:

All right. 

Marlee:

A little different, but I liked where you went. Okay. It's very hurtful. 

Lis:

Yes, it is. 

Marlee:

Okay. It makes you feel taken for granted.

18:46

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

It's a very disrespectful act. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

It causes resentment in the relationship. It shows a lack of perspective. It creates tension in the relationship.

Lis:

Of course.

Marlee:

But here we go. Now I'm going to go on the other side. If the relationship's not serious, it can be overstepping boundaries.

19:10

Lis:

Ah, okay. 

Marlee:

If the relationship's not serious, it can be an unrealistic expectation. If the relationship is dependent on the income that comes from the job, it can create an unfair pressure on the partner that's working to support everyone. 

Lis:

Ooh, that's a good one. Okay. Good list. 

Marlee:

All right. All right.

19:28

Lis:

Listen, this is actually, I think, a really important topic for a lot of people, and I feel as though getting some of these things off your chest can really help. 

Marlee:

Yeah, I agree. I think there's a type of relationship where work should be a priority. You know, and, and some relationships, they're too new, they're too young, they're not that serious, and I'm sorry they don't take a priority.

19:50

But I think in a steady, stable, long-term relationship, especially if you have a family. It can be really destructive when work becomes the priority over the family and the relationship. 

Lis:

You're so right. 

Marlee:

Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes…

20:11 

…and a recap of today's podcast or to learn more about us, visit www.romancipation.com. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive notifications of new episodes right when they're released. Also, make sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook if you're enjoying the podcast. Please let us know by leaving a five-star review on Apple or a five star-rating on Spotify reviews.

20:38

Let Apple know that great listeners like you enjoy our show and that helps us expand our audience. Thanks again and stay Romancipated.