True Love: Organic or Strategic?

00:00

Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve. 

00:30] 

It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated. 

Marlee:

Today's topic is true love: organic or strategic? 

Lis:

Okay. So I'm hearing organic and strategic, and I'm thinking organic. Like you just meet somebody in like a bar. I don't know. You've got to have to break it down for me.

00:53

Marlee:

Okay. I'm going to break it down for you. So it's funny you're saying that because I guess how you meet the person could be organic versus strategic. 

Lis:

That's what I, maybe that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. 

Marlee:

I'm talking about a little more about the feeling, but let's address that after. Okay. 

Lis:

Okay. That's great.

01:05

Marlee:

Okay. You see, you just opened up a new world for me. I see organic love as the kind of love that is shoved down our throats by the media, by like these romantic books and movies and TV shows. It's the, you see the person across a crowded room, across a crowded street. Your eyes meet, there's this instant attraction. [00:01:31] But not like, hot sexual attraction, like Fatal Attraction. Not like that.

Lis:

No dead bunnies. 

Marlee:

No, no dead bunnies. But, you know, uh, like their eyes lock and he's like, she's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And she's like, he's the most handsome man I've ever seen. And they start talking. 

01:50

You know what I mean? And they're just after like a few hours…

Lis: 

Who does that happened to? 

Marlee:

But that's what I mean. I want you to think about these romantic movies. This idea. They start talking, they have like a 24 hour date. They have all these wonderful things in common and they just really recognize like, this is my soulmate. 

2:06

This person has just elevated me to a whole other level. That's what I'm talking about when I say this concept of organic love. 

Lis:

Okay. 

Marlee:

You know, you've heard the phrase, butterflies in my stomach, or hearing bells and whistles. That's what I mean. It's, well, it's this idea of there's just this almost chemical reaction in you. 

02:28

Strategic love is what I would argue, society really teaches us very early on. Arranged marriages are a perfect example of that, where you are trying to find a mate. That is going to be not only a good match for you in terms of personality, in terms of, you know, like physicality, things like that, but in terms of your place in society, right? 

03:00

You can be very strategic, okay in who you are meeting now. To address what you said, I think that if you're looking for organic love, the chances that you walk into a bar and find that person pretty slim. But I think that when you go to say a specific bar where you know a certain type of person hangs out and you have a certain set of questions, don't, don't smile.

03:30

Lis:

Well, I'm smiling because in my head, okay. Disagree with if I'm wrong here. 

Marlee:

Yeah, go ahead. 

Lis:

The second, that person that said organic chemical reaction opens their mouth. Doesn't it become strategic to some degree?

Marlee:

I don't think so.

Lis:

I'm just saying like as soon as you start asking them questions about themselves and all of a sudden they start checking off these boxes, that strategically put you in a place that you know you went to this bar to meet maybe somebody that was what you were looking for.

04:00

In New York City, there are bars that you can go to that the finance people hang out at, musicians hang out at, or, you know, it's just kind of like their little niche. 

Marlee: 

Exactly. 

Lis:

So you specifically go to these places kind of knowing what type of hanger outer will be there, and the second you walk in, maybe you see this guy from across the room and all of a sudden you're like, Ooh, lights go off and sparkles and twinkles, and he's hot, and then all of a sudden you meet him and you start asking him questions. 

04:27

Doesn't that become strategic? Or is that still organic because of your twinkle? 

Marlee:

Well, it does, but you strategically went to that bar because you were looking for a hot musician. Okay. 

Lis:

Okay. So, organic happens completely organically, like across the street? 

Marlee:

No, no, it doesn't have to be like completely across the street. 

04:45

What I'm saying is there are people who just naturally meet and it can be work, it can be at a party, it can be whatever. Okay. And they just click and they end up falling in love with each other. And I think that's an organic kind of thing. Okay. And I think strategic and when people are specifically looking for somebody that has certain qualities.

Lis:

Okay, now I get it. Strategic in sort of who they're looking to mate with.

05:14

Marlee:

And I think that is kind of what I'm talking about. I think that strategic love is much more common than organic love. I'm not saying strategic love can't morph into organic love. The same way as you brought up. I'm not saying organic love can't then morph into strategic love. 

05:36

I'm just saying that I think for a lot of people, they are looking for romantic relationships with this organic idea that like this dream person is somehow out there and they're going to magically meet them and it's going to click and they're going to feel it. But the truth is, I don't think that's how most people operate. I think most people are incredibly strategic.

05:57

Lis:

I think so too. Yeah. No, but now I'm like thinking about all of, now that I have your idea and interpretation in my head, and it's super clear to me now. Most people when you're on like apps, it's completely strategic, right? 

Marlee:

Well, yeah, because the information you're putting out there is very strategic, and the person, you're, what swiping on right, is very strategic.

06:19

Lis:

So swipe, no, no, no, you know? 

Marlee:

Yeah, exactly. And so that's all I'm saying is that I think for a lot of people when they're looking for a romantic relationship and they're looking for like that true love, they have these unrealistic expectations because like I said, they've got this mindset that love has to be this romantic, organic thing. 

06:42

And like I said, I think that those situations do happen, right? You'll hear these feel good stories on the news where a couples celebrating their 75th wedding anniversary and they met in like kindergarten, their eyes locked across the glue table and they recognize that they were meant for each other and they always were there for each other. 

07:04

And I think those things do happen, but I think more often than not, they don't. 

Lis:

No, because all the kids in my kindergarten class were eating paste. So I was not attracted to them.

Marlee:

No, you weren't into them? I was the glitter girl anyway. If a guy had glitter, I was going to share my twinkie. Anyway, I really do think that people are much more strategic in how they're looking for love. 

07:28

I would argue that's the right way to be. 

Lis:

I would argue that's the right way to be. But I'm going to clarify that by saying, what if the things that you think you want aren't really what's going to take the relationship to the next level. 

Marlee:

Right. Well, you have to adjust your strategy. 

Lis:

I mean, I listen. What's your strategy? 

07:46

Well, that's it though. 

Marlee:

I'm the first one to say that. I think I'm guilty of it, and I think a lot of other, particularly women are guilty of it. I know that when I would meet men, I had a litany questions in my head that I wanted to run through within the first five to eight minutes of conversation.

08:05

Lis:

Wow. 

Marlee:

And if they didn't give me the right answers, I sort of was like, eh.

Lis:

You were the original speed dater and you didn't even know it. 

Marlee:

Okay. That, yeah, I mean, listen, like obviously I wanted a guy with a certain level of education. I wanted a guy with a certain background that I felt I would have common interests with. 

08:27

I wanted a guy who, you know, had a sort of political slant to the way they thought. Listen, I don't think I'm guilty. I think a lot of people feel the same way. 

Lis:

I don't think it's a guilty thing. 

Marlee:

Yeah. And so for me, you know, like I've always said, time is precious. It's just, it's one of those resources that we never know how much we have of right. 

08:44

And so I always took the attitude of I don't want to waste your time, and I don't want you to waste my time. So if I'd meet somebody, I always believed in being polite and having a decent conversation. But listen, I think you'd admit, I think anybody we're speaking to or listening would admit that as soon as you see somebody, you kind of instantly have a sense of if your attracted to them or not.

09:06

Certainly if they open their mouth, depending on their answers, their attractiveness level can increase or decrease. Right? 

Lis:

Of course. Certainly. Yeah. 

Marlee:

But the fact is there are certain things that people will do or where you kind of instantly are like, oh, okay. Not a good match. 

09:23

And that's all I mean, I don't think that there's anything wrong. I feel like using the term strategic has this like negative connotation. 

Lis:

It does. I know it shouldn't. 

Marlee:

Yeah. And it shouldn't because I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But like you said, I think you have to have the right strategy. 

09:39

Lis:

You have to have the right strategy. 

Marlee:

I think that when you're focusing on the wrong things, you end up in relationships that don't work out, right? So I'm not going to tell you what your strategy should be because everybody is different.

Lis: 

That's personal. 

Marlee:

Yeah, that's right. Everybody has different wants and needs. I'm just saying though, that if you match up on certain things, if you both kind of click in some ways, you probably have a greater chance of that organic sort of love too. 

10:15

Does that make sense? 

Lis:

Yes. Well it kind of takes it back to the whole foundation piece, right? 

Marlee:

Yeah, I think it does. Look, my husband, when I met him the first time.

Lis: 

I'm sure there is a story there. 

Marlee:

Yeah. there is. When I met him the first time, I instantly found him attractive. He instantly found me attractive. 

10:34

I thought he was intelligent. He obviously thought the same of me. We clicked, but there was a glaring issue between the two of us when I found out his age was significantly younger than me. That's right. I am the original Cougar. Thank you very much. 

Lis:

We're, finding out so much. 

Marlee:

Yeah. Okay. Right now I was before Demi Moore, Oh yeah, I was before. Thank you. 

10:52

Lis:

You sent her your notes.

Marlee:

And there was a significant age difference between us, the moment I found that out, right, my strategy, you know, he had checked certain boxes, but all of a sudden I was like, well, I'm looking for a certain thing. And I wouldn't consider him to be in the age range for that kind of thing to happen. 

11:13

Lis: 

Right. Okay.  

Marlee:

A potentially more serious commitment. 

Lis:

Fair enough. 

Marlee:

So, yeah, so I was just like, you know what? We're in different life stages. 

Lis:

Forget it. Timing is off. 

Marlee:

But, you know, he was hot. We did really get along. We did click and, uh, you know, I turned him into my little bed bunny.

11:30

You know what I mean? To be polite. I did. 

Lis:

There's nothing wrong, who's going to throw out a hot, perfectly good bed bunny. 

Marlee:

That's right. So, you know, and him being a younger guy and me being a more sophisticated lady, it was fun. Yeah, but when he started pushing for a more serious relationship, I wasn't going to go there because I had this strategic mindset that I didn't want to waste my time.

11:55

Lis: 

That you just didn't think he was ready or in the right place. 

Marlee:

Exactly. Yeah. Even though there was definitely an organic connection where there was definitely a deep connection between us and I ended the relationship and several years later we reconnected. Now all a sudden, strategically his age kind of fit.

12:11

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

And where I was in my life and where he was in his life, it fit. But we still had that organic nature. 

Lis:

Right. Because it's there.

Marlee:

You know what I mean? Cause it, there was still this like, just great connection. That the love just kept growing and growing and growing. So that's all I'm saying is that, you know, and I'm going to say this to you, he had to convince me in second time that the age thing wasn't a problem. 

Lis:

Interesting.

12:36

Marlee:

I still thought it was a problem. 

Lis:

You were still okay. 

Marlee:

That's was me, I was so stuck on my strategy that I almost missed out on a great experience and here we are many, many years later. 

Lis:

And save the love of your life, really. 

Marlee:

Yeah, exactly. So that's all I'm saying is that sometimes you have to switch your strategy too.

12:51

Lis:

That's right. Yeah. Sometimes you do. 

Marlee:

And what I originally thought would be a fun little bed bunny turned into the love of my life. What I'm saying is you never quite know where something's going to go, so you have to be open to the experience. 

Lis:

Definitely. 

Marlee:

Right? Yeah. But at the same time, I'm happy that I was strategic.

Lis:

Because it got you to a place where you were willing to and ready to accept everything else.

13:22

Marlee:

Yeah. Well, I mean, what about you? 

Lis:

I actually, I was going to say kind of the same thing, although I think my strategy in my younger years was pretty vain. I was kind of just looking for like a hot guy.

Marlee:

Nothing wrong with that. 

Lis:

I didn't really, you know, I was a serial monogamist as well, but I had quite a few long-term boyfriends before I met my husband, but I actually met my husband pretty young. 

13:44

So I would say that my strategy would probably be very different than when I was kind of in my earlier years looking for just like a hot guy that I could like hang out with and hook up with. And, you know, obviously my husband was different and I definitely had a more organic meeting with him. 

14:08

And, things just kind of built on their own. And we definitely went through a period. I don't think either of us were really ready at that age to also commit. So we took a break. I moved to a different city, but we kind of found our way back to each other. Okay. So I feel like it was strategic in a sense because we had to move. 

14:28

We needed to know that those were definitely the right cards and the right place for us. But I can see how timing and strategy and you know, now that we're talking about it, having the right mix of both organic and strategic make a really, really great relationship. 

Marlee:

I would agree. 

14:46

I'm just saying that sometimes, I guess it's always sort of the extremes. So, that's a great point you just made. I think that usually when things just sort of organically happen, but people come from such different backgrounds, it can be really, really passionate and there can be real true love there. 

15:02

But I don't necessarily think that it makes for a long-lasting relationship. I could be wrong. I mean, it does happen, but I think in general it kind of doesn't. And I think for the people who are very strategic, where they're just trying to check off certain boxes and there's not that sort of organic feeling, but the person looks great on paper.

15:20

Lis:

Right, right. Oh my gosh. You see that all the time. Yeah. 

Marlee:

They look great on paper. I think, again, a lot of relationships start that way and after a few years they just fall apart because there just isn't that emotional connection because the love just isn't organic. 

15:36

So I mean, look, I guess that's how I'll end this is I'll say, I don't think there's anything wrong with strategic. I don't think there's anything wrong with organic. I think that if you can get a mix of the two that would be amazing. But ultimately, true love is individual, right? Each person feels it in a different way.

15:57

It's venting time with Marlee and Lis. 

Marlee:

It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. 

Lis:

Love this. 

Marlee:

Today's topic, When Friends Change Their Personality to Fit a New Partner. 

Lis:

Oh, happens all the time. 

Marlee:

All right, I'm ready. You ready to hear me?

16:21

Lis:

I'm ready. I'm ready. Okay. Go for it. 

Marlee:

It's beyond annoying.

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

It makes you wonder what their real personality is if it changes so easily for every new romantic partner. It makes your friend look weak and pathetic? 

Lis:

Ugh, it does. 

Marlee:

It highlights their serious insecurity.

Lis:

So insecure. 

Marlee:

It is a very weak attempt at people pleasing.

16:44

Lis:

Oh my gosh, yes. 

Marlee:

It can be seen as a form of manipulation on your friend's part. It makes it hard to trust your friend. 

Lis:

It does. 

Marlee:

It makes you suspicious of their new partner. 

Lis:

Oh my gosh. It does. 

Marlee:

It makes you resent your friend. 

Lis:

Oh it does? Yeah. Oh my gosh. 

Marlee:

And it makes you resent your friend's new partner.

17:04

Lis:

You've got it. 

Marlee:

It makes you uncomfortable to go along with the lie. 

Lis:

Oh my God. So uncomfortable. 

Marlee:

It feels icky and kind of abusive. 

Lis:

You know what? You're right. 

Marlee:

It can make you sad for your friend.

Lis:

I am actually getting sad. 

Marlee:

Yeah. It can make you end the friendship with your friend. 

Lis:

I've done it. 

Marlee:

It makes you unsupportive of the new relationship, which is sad. 

17:26

It feels phony. 

Lis:

It is phony. 

Marlee:

It makes you lose respect for your friend. It's the reason your friend can never find a satisfying and healthy relationship. 

Lis:

Oh yes. Oh my God. Yes. That's true. 

Marlee:

Let me hear yours, girl. 

Lis:

Ooh. All right. I like to call this person the shape shifter. 

Marlee:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Good one. 

Lis:

Okay, so they have zero autonomous personality and they always adopt the personality of their various partners.

17:53

Marlee:

Yes. Hate it. 

Lis:

They lose their sense of self-worth. You have to reassess your own core self at the end of every single relationship to get back to ground zero. Like who were you to begin with? That's exhausting. 

Marlee:

Yes. 

Lis:

They have low self-esteem. They think that they have to become someone else for that person to care about them or love them.

18:12

Marlee:

Right. 

Lis:

They will have a hard time finding a partner that they really know and feel completely confident in that relationship. 

Marlee:

Yes, yes. 

Lis:

You know what? I can't stand it. It actually makes me so sad every time. It's cringey. 

Marlee:

It's cringey. All right. Do you feel, do you feel like, you know, you've able to breathe more easily now?

18:29

Lis:

I feel like I feel heard.

Marlee:

Good. Same here. Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast, or to learn more about us, visit www.romancipation.com. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive notifications of new episodes right when they're released.

18:54

Also make sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook. If you're enjoying the podcast, please let us know by leaving a five-star review on Apple or a five-star rating on Spotify reviews. Let Apple know that great listeners like you enjoy our show and that helps us expand our audience. Thanks again and stay Romancipated.