S6 Episode 2: Should You Stay in Your League?
Episode Summary
Humans love to categorize. It is instinctual and we all do it. Whether we realize it or not, we all assign ourselves and others a certain “value” as a mate and then look for our match. Unfortunately, we often focus on superficial traits like looks, age, socio-economic status or education, instead of core values and commonalities.
When people try to partner with a person who appears to be more desirable than themselves, it can lead to disappointment or disapproval by outside forces. The individual themselves or others see the coupling as a mismatch and try to influence the more desirable person to justify their partner choice.
A Romancipated person knows that superficial traits fade or can be lost over time. They focus on a partner’s qualities that make for a long-lasting, mutually beneficial relationship. They also are realistic about what they bring to a relationship and temper their expectations of their partner.
At the end of each episode, Marlee and Lis vent about commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. In this episode, the ladies discuss the frustration of one partner making all of the decisions or plans and the other partner complaining when it is not to their liking.
Show Notes
When pursuing romantic relationships, should you stay in your league? This topic might be influencing your romantic life more than you realize. Sometimes people do come together from different leagues and levels of status, but generally if people try to date outside of their league, they miss out on finding the happiness they’re looking for.
When there is a superficial mismatch, it can lead the person who’s out of the other’s league to look for another attractive mate. That said, sometimes the superficial matters much less than what’s on the inside. If your values match, you might still be able to make it work.
Consider when you see a couple walking down the street where one is very attractive, and the other person is much less so. Most of us would jump to the conclusion that something is happening behind the scenes—like something else is driving this match we can’t see like sex or money.
Another type of mismatch more commonly seen is education. Usually, if a highly educated person brings home a less educated person, their family rejects them. Even if they are the kindest, most wonderful person, the family has a hard time looking past it. As humans, we naturally classify ourselves into certain leagues. But if you truly are a good match and have a relationship with mutual values and respect, you may be successful after all.
In this episode, the vent session topic is: When people always want their partner to make the decision and then complain. It’s a passive-aggressive move and shows a complete lack of appreciation for your partner. It’s okay if you struggle to make a decision, but if that’s the case, you shouldn’t criticize the person who follows through.
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Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it! This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating, and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.
It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated.
Marlee:
On today's episode, Should You Stay in Your League? Okay, Lis, I'm not talking about sports here because I know nothing about leagues and baseball.
Lis:
You know, I love that though.
Marlee:
I know you do.
Lis:
My mind went there.
Marlee:
I'm waiting for you to give some sort of sports analogy. This topic came to me because I think it is something that impacts a lot of people's romantic decisions more than they recognize.
Lis:
Yeah, I agree.
Marlee:
I have told people in the past, when they have come to me and pointed out an individual that they really were interested in. I admit, I have told them, “Eh, you should probably stay in your league.”
Lis:
Wow.
Marlee:
“ I wouldn't go for that person.” And I said it not to be bitchy, even though I'm sure that's how it's coming off. I said it because I felt the person was going to be very disappointed. And I also felt that they were most definitely going to be rejected.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Now, I fully admit this was advice that I gave in high school and in college when probably people were shallow.
Lis:
Okay.
Marlee:
But I do remember my girlfriends who weren't the most attractive or the most charming or the most popular and they would be zeroed in on like the “it” guy who had every female's attention.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
He was the good looking one. He was the athletic one. He was the smart one. He was the kind one. He had all of these traits. And so every kind of female out there in the high school was after him.
Lis:
Yup.
Marlee:
And my girlfriends would gush, like, “Oh, should I ask him out? Do you think I should send him a note? Do you think I should call him?” And all I could think is, “Yikes.” I mean, the dude's been in school with you for years and he hasn't even spoken to you. He hasn't looked your way. Like, he's not interested.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Hate to be the one to deliver that news, but he's just not. And if you asked, why. “Why, why Marlee? Why doesn't he look at me?” I'd be like, “Cause he's out of your league.” I'm sorry. It doesn't mean that one day later on in your life, you might be fabulous. But right now, he's out of your league. Now, I'm not telling you that there aren't relationships of people from very differing statuses.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Let's say whether it's a really good looking person and not such an attractive person or a really educated person with a less educated person or a person with money versus a person without money.
I'm not saying that people can't come together and they can't have very successful relationships. I'm saying that as people age, and as people are dating, and as people are getting together, and finding their mates, I do think that for many people, they're not finding the happiness that they're looking for because they keep going for people they don't have a shot with.
Lis:
Well, and it doesn't necessarily come down to their core values, right? I mean, to me, that is like a very superficial thing to kind of start the relationship with. But I do also think, I mean, listen, they've written songs about this too. If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. Like, I mean, it's a song, right? Have you not heard it?
Marlee:
No.
Lis:
Oh my gosh. It's a good song. We'll play it later. But it's true because when you think about when there is a mismatch in terms of, let's say the superficial looks wise, right? I do think that as people age and get older, that if you're unhappy and you don't feel like your mate is attractive enough or making enough money or those are the people that don't have the core values in place anyway, and they're going to stray. They're going to be looking at other people.
Marlee:
I was an outsider telling these individuals I didn't think that the guy was in their league.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Now maybe being an outsider and I'm exerting this influence, right?
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Maybe it is that they would have been a great match because maybe they did share core values and I stopped them from finding happiness. Gosh, I am a bitch.
Lis:
You are a happiness killer.
Marlee:
Oh my god. I stopped them from finding happiness because I said to them, you don't match up superficially.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And therefore, don't even bother. But I don't know. Look, I can only speak for myself. But I know if I see on the street a really attractive person with an unattractive person. I'm not going to lie to you, my first instinct is either if it's a really good looking female with a not great looking male, I'm like, he's either rich or he's got a huge dick, right?
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Or if it's a really good looking male and a not attractive female, my first thought is he has really low self esteem.
Lis:
Interesting.
Marlee:
Or she must be able to suck his dick on a level that no one else has ever matched. I'm just telling you what my initial reaction is. It's no different than if I see an older male or female with a much younger male or female.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
My initial thought is money, right? The older one has money and the younger one is a gold digger.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
It could be I am one hundred percent incorrect and all these types of mismatches that I'm perceiving actually share the same type of interest in hobbies, passions, belief systems, cultural ideals, morals, life principles, whatever. I don't know.
Lis:
Of course, but your first mindset, your initial reaction is that there was something, it's not superficial, but like there's something else there. There's something that's driving them towards that...
Marlee:
There is something that is driving that relationship.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And if I, as a total stranger…
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And putting this sort of negative energy out there about this couple, I can only imagine what the two individuals in the couple must be experiencing from this external influence.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
Whether it's family, friends, coworkers, or just strangers.
Lis:
Right, exactly. Well, you know what, that actually kind of leads me like even to a different question because do you feel like when people are reacting to a relationship mismatch, like, you just kind of said that there's a lot of pressure on the couple itself, right? So think about, like, your family not really respecting your relationship because they're seeing something that's not really, you know.
Marlee:
Well, yeah, you see that all the time with, say, education.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
You see an educated person brings home an uneducated person to their family and the family instantly rejects that individual.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Even though they could be the most decent, thoughtful, wonderful match and partner imaginable.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
But because they don't have a formal education, or they don't come from a certain background…
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
They're instantly dismissed. That's all I'm saying is that I think there's a reason people do react biologically to a mismatch and maybe that's why I would say to my friends to kind of stay in their league.
I know that anytime I would go out with my girlfriends. When there were guys that we didn't find attractive, wow, am I really coming off as a super bitch here. When the guys would come up and try and talk to us, I'm not going to lie, we'd all kind of give each other the same look and we didn't say anything, but I know what the look meant and it meant, are you fucking kidding me, who the hell is this guy thinking he could come up to us.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Right?
Lis:
Of course.
Marlee:
He could be the most intelligent, thoughtful, funny, clever, interesting, decent person. And yet, because we didn't like his looks, or the way he was dressed, or kind of the way he approached us, we were instantly judging him and taking the attitude of like, why are you talking to us?
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I already know I'm a horrible person.
Lis:
I don't, I don't think you're a horrible person, I just think that there are reasons that people react. I mean, I think that, specifically I would say people that you care about. Right? So if you bring somebody home and you're dating them and you find this person so loving and so attractive and there's an outside force of people saying, well, this person's not the right fit for you, unless there is some type of like, red flag, like physical violence or any type of abuse going on, I do feel like friends and family need to be supportive of these relationships and kind of go with the flow because they are going to be together whether or not you like them. You're the one that's going to be dismissed.
Marlee:
No listen, I agree.
Lis:
I just feel like you could be ruining somebody's happiness…
Marlee:
You’re right.
Lis:
Based on your outward look at something you deem as being maybe not a great match, but it's not, you know, maybe their core values are the same like you had mentioned.
Marlee:
You are right. Looks fade.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Everybody gets older.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
You can lose money in a heartbeat.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
Somebody who's educated doesn't mean that they're intelligent or going to make good decisions.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
So, you're right in that sense, those mismatched qualities can fade over time or can be revealed to in fact not per se be mismatches.
Lis:
Right, exactly.
Marlee:
But I do think that there's a lot of times when the mismatches are true. And I think that in that particular situation, I would argue there's probably a power imbalance. So, for example, the wealthier person specifically went for a person that had no money because it allowed them to be in a position of power to have the upper hand in the relationship.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I could see…
Lis:
And that's a red flag.
Marlee:
That's a red flag. I could see a person going after another person for their beauty and not actually valuing everything else they have to offer.
Lis:
What they're contributing. Absolutely.
Marlee:
And using them as eye candy, right? And again, that should be a red flag. So like, I get it.
Lis:
Although some people like that. Some people value their beauty, right? Some people value the fact and use that as what they have to offer in terms of, I'm not saying it's right, but I'm not judging it because some people aren't the most educated and some people don't have the most amount of money, but maybe they're beautiful and that's what they have to offer.
I just think that the initial gut reaction to looking at a mismatch couple, I think everybody would probably be in the same boat. Like you had mentioned before, like if it was an unattractive man with a beautiful woman, obviously he has money or he's got a big package.
Or, you know, if you see it the opposite, where it's a beautiful woman with not such attractive man, maybe she's got money. I mean, who knows, right? I mean, there's so many, your initial, immediate…
Marlee:
Yeah, unless it's a celebrity, I'm going to say kind of no on that one.
Lis:
Well, she's probably not going for an attractive guy. She’s like, whatever.
Marlee:
I mean, look, who knows?
Lis:
But I do think that like people's perception of what their relationship looks like is an immediate gut reaction, right? I mean, like you said.
Marlee:
No. You're right. I guess for me. I always have said, as I've argued in past podcasts, we even had one about finding diamonds in the rough.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
What I want our listeners to know is that you got to be able to look past these sort of surface… you know, superficial traits.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And recognize if in fact you do share these core values. If you really do entertain each other, if you inspire each other, if you can trust each other, if you communicate well with each other, if there is a mutual respect. I mean, I'm not going to tell you good looks and money aren't a bonus or a big package because they are.
Lis:
They are. They're all up there. That’s true.
Marlee:
I'm going to say though that I do think that you need to look for so many qualities and traits in a partner beyond those superficial ones, but I also will say that I think we are humans, we are animals. I think we follow our instincts and instinctually people naturally classify each other into these different leagues. Whether it's about looks about education, class, even like the cool factor, whatever it is they're valuing in that moment. And I do think that when people see themselves as being in a lower league than the individual they are after.
Often, they're going to not be successful in getting that person in the higher league, so to speak. And I think that a person who would be classified as being in a higher league, if they go for somebody that is in a lower league, that usually it's because they are either unaware of the league that they are in or that they are using it as a way to maintain…
Lis:
Leverage.
Marlee:
Yes, some sort of power.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
I guess that's the way I would look at it.
Lis:
Sure.
Marlee:
I could be completely wrong, but I do know that high school Marlee and college Marlee has evolved as a person and I would give very different advice to my adult female friends now. I would say, “Know your value, and if you think you've got a lot to offer, go for a person that has got a lot to offer.”
But, if you're a person who doesn't have a lot to offer, and you think you're going to go for this person that's got everything to offer, my attitude is, you're kind of entitled and unrealistic. Okay, so I guess I am just like old high school Marlee.
Lis:
But evolved.
It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.
Marlee:
It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships.
Today's topic, When People Always Want Their Partner to Make the Decision and Then Complain. Alright, so do you want to go first or would you like to hear my vents?
Lis:
Take it away. Take it away.
Marlee:
So this is beyond frustrating. I think it's a passive aggressive behavior.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
It signals the person is unwilling to take personal responsibility so that if things don't work out, they can avoid being blamed.
It shows a complete lack of appreciation for your partner's hard work. A lot of people have difficulty making a decision but are more than willing to criticize the person that actually took the time to make a decision and follow through. Making decisions, researching and executing is time consuming. The idea that my partner would not be happy that I took on this burden and instead decided to complain, would make me want to punch them in the face.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
It's such a selfish and entitled behavior. It shows a lack of empathy and respect for your partner. If your partner's decisions never make you happy, then why are you not willing to step up? It's like the partner that's complaining is setting their partner up for failure. I consider this a red flag.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
It's a major turnoff if someone does not have any opinion or creativity when it comes to travel or dining. People that live their lives through others lack imagination.
It's one thing if you have divided the labor in the relationship, so to speak, and your partner enjoys organizing the trips or coming up with dining options. However, if your partner is the one who always insists on making the decisions, that's a red flag as well. It's a form of control and it should not be tolerated.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
Especially if you've made your preferences, wants and desires known, but they're being ignored or are always treated in a deferential manner to your partner's desires, wants, and needs. In a healthy relationship, people should take turns on making decisions about food and travel. That way, each person is getting some of their wants and needs met.
I will never understand, Lis, the idea that one person does all the work and makes all the arrangements and the reservations or the cooking or the grocery shopping and then the other person thinks that they have a leg to stand on to complain.
Lis:
Oh my God.
Marlee:
I don't even get it.
Lis:
You're so right. You're so right.
Marlee:
Yeah.
Lis:
Well, I mean, listen, those were some really great points and I one hundred percent agree. I mean, listen, it takes two to tango, right?
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
That’s the saying and so I think that the problem may sometimes be related to their shortcomings, but it also can be related to your own shortcomings, right? Because maybe you would like to be in control of those kind of situations and take control and you make them feel badly about it too, right?
It goes both ways. So I think maybe they have a problem making decisions because of low self esteem issues too.
Marlee:
Right.
Lis:
That can possibly be, and they don't want to be judged. Maybe they have been rewarded over extended periods of time to just accept your decisions instead because their own may have been repeatedly criticized, rejected, or belittled.
This may have also happened in their home growing up. And maybe it's simply just part of your relationship because that's what they saw. And, you know, they weren't asked for their opinion. But I do think that instead of taking responsibility for your own happiness, which would be empowering, codependents focus externally. So they're totally looking to be codependent on you to do all of those kind of things. But just to close it, if they then complain about it, I’d punch him in the face, too.
Marlee:
Yeah Absolutely.
Lis:
You can't…you can't expect…
Marlee:
You can't have it both ways.
Lis:
You can't have it both ways.
Marlee:
Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast, or to learn more about us, visit www.Romancipation.com.
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