S4 Episode 10: Passion is Not the Same as Jealousy: One Thrills and the Other Kills
Episode Summary
Passion is something that we all look for in a romantic relationship, but how we define passion can vary. Often people place too much value on passion as a way to measure the success of a partnership. Viewing a lack of excitement as a sign the relationship is not healthy or fulfilling is misdirected.
Passion, like many things, can evolve in a relationship. It can be more subtle than the thrill of sexual excitement. It can exist in multiple aspects of your shared life with your romantic partner. Passion can be stimulating or inspiring. It should never be scary or threatening.
Passion is not drama or jealousy. If you or your partner need to create emotional upheavals to feel something, that is unhealthy behavior that should be addressed. Passion should be a positive experience that is shared by the couple. Jealousy is a one-sided emotion that signals insecurity and a desire to control another person.
At the end of each episode, Marlee and Lis vent about commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. In this episode, the ladies discuss the frustrating situation of people asking for relationship advice without any intention of following it.
Show Notes
We’re told passion is important to have in our lives, whether that’s towards hobbies, a job, or a relationship. Passion can be a positive thing, but it’s important to distinguish the difference between passion and jealousy, especially in romantic relationships. Passion is great for a relationship, while jealousy can crush it.
Passion is emotional and dramatic. It’s supposed to be thrilling, but it should never be threatening. That is one way you can highlight the difference between passion and jealousy. Some people want drama, or “movie moments” in their relationship. Over-the-top gestures may be exciting, but it’s also where jealousy can sneak in.
Jealousy is never a positive thing. It comes from insecurity. If your partner is jealous of your accomplishments or other relationships, it’s not your fault. The jealousy is an internal struggle of their own. Some people use “passion” as an excuse to act poorly in their relationships. This person might say something along the lines of “I do this because I love you so much.” That’s a red flag.
Any partner who automatically views your interactions with others as flirtatious—even when it’s just saying “thank you” to the delivery guy—is showing a clear sign of jealousy. When you question them, they may try to excuse their controlling behavior as passion. Passion is shared, jealousy is not.
In this episode, the vent session topic is: When people ask for relationship advice but never take it. It’s frustrating and a waste of time for the person who was kind enough to listen and offer suggestions. It makes the advice giver feel used. It makes it seem like the person asking for advice actually wants validation—not guidance.
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Visit us at www.romancipation.com
Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating, and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.
It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated.
Marlee:
Today's topic, Passion is Not the Same as Jealousy: One Kills and the Other Thrills.
Lis:
Oh, the old green-eyed monster.
Marlee:
Listen, passion is something that we are always hearing about. We are always being told you should look for passion in your relationships.
Passion in your job, passion in your hobbies. Follow your passion. Passion, passion. It's one of those buzzwords that people think is so incredibly wonderful and attainable. And the fact is, passion can be found in all aspects of your life.
Lis:
Okay?
Marlee:
It can.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
I want to start off by kind of talking about passion in the positive light.
Lis:
Okay.
Marlee:
And then I'd like to take the discussion to jealousy because I think it's really important people are able to distinguish each of these feelings in their romantic relationships.
Lis:
Yeah, absolutely. Agreed.
Marlee:
So, okay, passion. For me, yes, passion is a wonderful thing to have in a relationship, and the truth is, a lot of people think passion only happens at the beginning stages of relationship, that sort of honeymoon stage.
I would argue Lis that is not the case. I think you can have passion in all different aspects and stages of even a long-term relationship.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
Passion is about connecting. It's about having an intimacy. It's about being excited for one another, or shared interests, right? You might have sexual passion…
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
In the beginning when you're young and hot, you know, and maybe when you're a little older you might find a passion for music that you guys really share, and it brings an enrichment into your relationship.
Lis:
Hey, I still feel young and hot. So that's just like,
Marlee:
Well, I, I mean, we're still young and hot, but you, but you get what I mean,
Lis:
Like I do. Well, I think that passion at the beginning of a relationship is just more like relatable.
I feel like people kind of go into it thinking that it's like that, like sexy, hot feeling like you just said, but I love your point that there's different things that you can be passionate about in your relationship together.
Marlee:
That's right. Passion comes in different forms.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
Exactly. The other thing I want to say is passion is thrilling. It should never be scary.
Lis:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Marlee:
And it's emotional. And it's dramatic.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
But it should never be threatening.
Lis:
Right. Yeah.
Marlee:
And that is a huge difference between passion and jealousy. When people are looking for passion in a relationship, for me, that is a code word for drama.
That's really how I look at it. Whenever I have interacted with men and women. Particularly women. And they complain about, oh, there's just no passion. I just don't feel there's any passion in the relationship. What they really want is drama. They want those movie moments…
Lis:
Right, yeah.
Marlee:
Remember we've had past podcasts about movie moments…
Lis:
That’s right.
Marlee:
And this is a perfect example of that. They somehow think that passion means grand over the top gestures.
Lis:
Right. Instead of just about feeling good.
Marlee:
That's right.
Lis:
And feeling love and feeling happy, which is really what passion is all about.
Marlee:
That's right. And excitement.
Lis:
Yeah, exactly.
Marlee:
And I think this is where you start pulling in the concept of jealousy. I think when people look at passion as drama, they mistake jealousy as passion.
Lis:
Right. Okay.
Marlee:
And jealousy is never a positive thing. It just isn't. Jealousy comes from insecurity.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And if your partner is feeling jealous, that is a “them” problem.
Lis:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Marlee:
It is not a “you” problem. And when your partner is jealous about your achievements, other relationships you might have with your family, with friends if they're accusing you of being flirtatious or interacting with somebody to try and elicit these feelings in them. Please understand jealousy is never a problem that you have.
Jealousy is a problem that your partner has.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
That they then try to convince you that you're the cause of it.
Lis:
Right. No, you're so right. That's such a good point, have you ever been jealous before?
Marlee:
No. I actually am not a particularly jealous person.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And it's interesting because I have had many past relationships with males who are a little miffed about the fact that I don't get jealous.
Lis:
You weren't jealous.
Marlee:
Yeah. But I do think that, jealousy is tied so strongly to insecurity and absolutely a lack of self-worth and a sense of self-love. And I happen to be full of a sense of self-worth and self-love.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
And so because of it, I've always known my value.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And because I've known my value, I've never felt the need to be jealous or threatened by another person.
My attitude has always been if you don't find what you need with me, right?
Lis:
Sure.
Marlee:
If I'm not the person who can deliver the passion for you, the intimacy for you, if you need the excitement and the thrill someplace else, then we're obviously not a good match.
Lis:
Great point.
Marlee:
So it's never anything that I have ever looked at as being like, Ugh, I'm so jealous. I mean, yeah, I've been jealous of like maybe in female friendships.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I think I've experienced jealousy because maybe I wanted more attention from one of my female friends, but I've never experienced it in a romantic relationship.
Lis:
No, I think that's so interesting and such a great point. And I will say, personally for me, I'm also not a very jealous person and it's, I don't even know what it would take. But I will say like there have been instances where you get that pang of, or at least for me, like where I've gotten a pang of, oh wow.
Like that's. Like, oh, I really don't love that. Or, you know, like, I don't like the way that this is going. But it instantly, and I think that this is maybe where it's different, it instantly makes me turn internal and be like, why would I even feel that way? Like, of course that doesn't make any sense. Like, you know, like I go through all the motions in my head and think about it, and then I'm just like, well, what am I not giving?
Or what do I need that I'm not communicating properly? And anytime that that's happened to me, and I will say like this started even in like my early twenties. I'm not a very jealous person, but I have noticed that if something has occurred to me, I've either, there's been something very off in the relationship, right?
Like I, it's almost like a gut instinct for me that if I've ever felt that pain of jealousy that there's something completely wrong.
Marlee:
Okay. Yeah, no, I mean, like, I do think that there are people who, like I said, they have a lot of insecurity, especially in the romantic relationships, and there's this feeling that they need to control and sort of possess the other person.
They're afraid of losing the other person. They're afraid of losing control.
Lis:
And that's exactly it.
Marlee:
That's right. And as a result, the jealousy comes out in ways that are very unhealthy and one of the best ways to mask jealousy is to use the term passion. “I'm just so passionate for you. I'm just so passionate about this relationship.
That's why I'm so angry. That's why I was so hurt”. Basically, anytime somebody has an oversized reaction…
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
In a romantic relationship, when they see their partner doing or saying something that they don't approve of or that somehow makes them feel bad. Instead of recognizing that it is an internal issue…
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
They use it as an excuse and they say that it's passion, that they're feeling that they're so passionate about this person and they convince that other individual that they are the one doing something wrong.
Now, you and I have also had a prior episode about different types of infidelity, and one of the types is micro cheating. Right?
Lis:
Right, exactly.
Marlee:
And so that is a very different thing when you are in a relationship and you've defined your boundaries of what you consider appropriate interactions with other individuals that you can have some legitimate jealousy.
Lis:
Okay.
Marlee:
If you have said to your partner, Hey, listen. When you dance provocatively with that other person, it makes me uncomfortable.
Lis:
But again, you're making it about you because you're right and you're putting the things…
Marlee:
But you're allowed to define your boundaries.
Lis:
That's what I'm saying.
Marlee:
You're allowed to feel it.
Lis:
And that's where my pangs maybe came from back in like, you know, my college days where, you know, I did have multiple boyfriends and I could definitely tell when things were off because I would have that pain and maybe, but again, internally, I knew it was an insecurity on my end.
But, At the same time, looking back at it, obviously like now, it was not the right relationship for me to be in anyway. So, you know, those pings probably came because I knew that there was something wrong or off.
Marlee:
Right. Oh, I mean, listen, boundaries have to be reasonable. Everybody's entitled to have their boundaries as to what makes them feel jealous, right?
But when we're talking about the level of jealousy that is then somehow described as passion, we're talking about unreasonable boundaries. I think it is reasonable for you to say to your partner, It is uncomfortable and I don't like it if you're grinding on a strange guy on the dance floor or a strange woman on the dance floor, I think that's reasonable.
And if your partner is a flirtatious person like you or I…
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
You know, have been in the past and certainly still are, if my partner communicated that to me, I would have to have a serious sit down and really think about it. And even if I felt it wasn't a big deal, if my partner explained to me that you know, it was a big deal…
Lis:
And it made them uncomfortable.
Marlee:
And it made them uncomfortable.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I would have to respect that. If my partner said to me, I don't want you wearing fitted clothing, or I don't want you wearing something low cut. I would take issue with that. That would be an overreaching boundary for me.
Because the fact is, it's my body. Now, I understand if I am grinding on somebody where my ass is pushing into their crotch, I get that. I get that my partner might be jealous of that. It might make them uncomfortable, and that's a reasonable boundary.
Lis:
Sure.
Marlee:
But if I'm wearing something low cut, it's my body, my choice, I'm going to wear it.
You don't dictate to me what I should wear. And if you feel the need to dictate to me, then that means you are not the right person for me.
Lis:
There you go.
Marlee:
Do you understand?
Lis:
Sure.
Marlee:
I want our listeners to really get that if someone's jealous and possessive, it is always because they can't control themselves, they can't control their own emotions.
Lis:
It's a “them” problem.
Marlee:
It's a “them” problem. And if they need to overpower another person to get any sort of sense of self worth, that is a huge red flag. There's a term called love bombing.
Lis:
Ooh.
Marlee:
And that is an example of where passion, right, is used when people claim that they're passionate about a person, but it is not a healthy type of passion, and it's important that people understand what a love bombing type of behavior is.
It's dangerous. And it's abusive. It's basically a person who is immediately telling you how much they love you, how important you are, how you are the best thing that ever happened to them, how they can't live without you, how they need you to just focus on them because they just love you so much that you know the idea of sharing you with another person, it just hurts them so much.
This is unhealthy and abnormal behavior.
Lis:
It sounds psychotic to me.
Marlee:
It is. Listen, any romantic partner you have who views any interaction you might have with another person as either flirtatious, even with all you did is say thank you to the UPS guy when he hands you the package.
Or they claim it's suspicious if you get a work call from a male colleague or they feel threatened by your friends taking you out dancing for your birthday, whatever it might be. Very innocent interactions are all of a sudden labeled as something sinister. And then when you question the person, they always use the excuse.
It's just, because I love you so much, it's because I'm so hot for you. You know, it's because I want to protect you. I don't want you to dress that way because I want to protect you. This is dangerous behavior. This is not passion.
Lis:
That's controlling.
Marlee:
That's controlling.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Passion is something completely different.
Passion is a feeling that you want to share with your partner. You want them to get the excitement and the thrill and the warm…
Lis:
Fuzzies.
Marlee:
Fuzzy feelings that surround what you guys are doing. And so, like I said, passion in the beginning might be a kiss in the rain, right? The pouring rain…
Lis:
And talk about movie moments.
Marlee:
I know, I know. But for me, I can tell you passion at this point is when my husband makes me the perfect cup of coffee and the two of us sit there just looking at each other, having this like just wonderfully made foam with like a little bit of cinnamon on my cappuccino and we're just, savoring the enjoyment of a well-made coffee.
And there's just this sort of like, there's a sizzle there. I can't explain it.
Lis:
Well, because there is a moment of intimacy because you're doing something together.
Marlee:
That's right.
Lis:
And you're experiencing something together.
Marlee:
That's right.
Lis:
And taking the time to enjoy each other.
Marlee:
That's right. Something's simple can elicit passion in you.
Lis:
It's an enjoyment. Yep.
Marlee:
So I know when our kids go off to a sleepover, we're very passionate, not about getting it on per se, but we're passionate about Yay we have the house to ourselves giddy with excitement. So I'm just telling you that passion is something that should exist in a relationship.
It can exist in a relationship. If you feel it's dying in a relationship, you can rekindle it.
Lis:
Absolutely.
Marlee:
You absolutely can by figuring out what you two can share and really enjoy together. It can certainly be sexual in nature. It doesn't have to be. They can be very benign. It can be a passion in like the same foods, the same music, the same movie, something that you guys enjoy.
Lis:
But it should never be scary.
Marlee:
Never or threatening.
Lis:
Threatening or controlling or leaving you with a bad, insecure feeling.
Marlee:
That's right.
Lis:
I mean, to me it's really about passion is about all of the good things that a relationship will bring. And jealousy really is about kind of that festering negativity and insecurity.
Marlee:
I agree. I will leave it at this. Passion does not equal drama. Never equate the two because they are not the same. Passion is positive. Drama is negative. Jealousy is negative. If you want to equate two things, equate drama and jealousy.
Lis:
There you go.
Marlee:
Not passion and jealousy. Not the same thing. Very different.
It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.
Marlee:
It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. Today's topic, When People Ask for Relationship Advice, But Never Take it.
Lis:
Why?
Marlee:
Yeah. Okay, so obviously this is a little personal for the two of us.
Lis:
Yeah, this is personal.
Marlee:
We create a relationship advice podcast, so if people are hearing some tension in our voices, there would be a reason for that. Okay. So I'm, I'm going to go first if you don't mind.
Lis:
Please do.
Marlee:
All right. So, I'm going to say I think it's an incredibly common practice. I cannot figure out why people ask for someone else's advice if they have no intention of listening or even considering the validity of the advice.
It's a frustrating waste of time for the person who is kind enough to listen and offer helpful suggestions.
Lis:
That's great. Yep.
Marlee:
It makes the advice giver feel unappreciated and used.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
It's a manipulation in an attempt to get validation for what the person actually wants to do, even if the individual giving advice disagrees with the course of action.
Lis:
Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. Right there.
Marlee:
It is a selfish, self-serving behavior.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
It signals a lack of self-awareness on the part of the advice seeker.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
It is unproductive to keep asking for advice if you have no intention of taking it. If you're willing to just keep repeating the same behaviors, but hope there will be a change in the outcome, then you are not dealing in reality.
Lis:
Nope.
Marlee:
If people think they already have the right answers, then act on your decision and stop bothering everybody else.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
People often will not take advice that either puts some of the blame or responsibility onto them, makes them have to do something they're afraid of or find difficult, or forces them to accept the things they cannot change.
Lis:
Oh my gosh, yes.
Marlee:
That's my little preaching, right there.
Lis:
Yeah. There you go. I love it.
Marlee:
I want to hear yours.
Lis:
All right. Well, I think that your friend thrives on drama, right?
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
Like sometimes they just get into this spiral. My friend can't possibly value my time or my emotional energy. The advice that you're giving your friend is not what they want to hear.
Marlee:
That's right.
Lis:
I think you said that too. I think that people try to manipulate a situation to get kind of what they want to hear out of it.
Marlee:
Absolutely.
Lis:
And if you're not giving it to them, then they don't take it. And then for me, I like to look at my friends at this point and say, you know what?
Maybe it's not them, maybe it's you, because truthfully, it's really unlikely that they suddenly turned into this person who's treating you so badly today. Obviously, you have a history of knowing what you're getting into to get to this point in the relationship, and you keep following the same pattern, person after person, and if that's true, then you are exactly who you were when you started too. You were the person who ignored all their faults.
Marlee:
Ooh, love it.
Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week to view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast or to learn more about us, visit www.Romancipation.com.
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