Infidelity and Life Stage: Destructive or Self-Discovery

00:00 

Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.

00:27

It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated 

Marlee:

On today's episode, Infidelity and Life Stage. Destructive or Self-Discovery? So Lis, we've already done multiple episodes on infidelity because I think it is such an incredibly important topic in romantic relationships, and I think it has such a significant impact on people and their romantic relationships.

00:56 

Lis:

It does.

Marlee:

So on this episode, I wanted to discuss infidelity in a form of self-discovery. 

Lis:

Okay. 

Marlee:

Versus being destructive to a relationship because I do think that one of the reasons, infidelity is so commonplace is because it often serves both purposes, so to speak. I know that depending on what life stage you're in, you look at things differently, right? 

01:23

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

As we mature, as we evolve things that we may have found acceptable at one point in our life, we no longer find acceptable or vice versa. Things we were more conservative about, we become more liberal about, we're more open to things and I think that in romantic relationships, there is a lot of evolvement in life stage.

01:42

Lis:

I totally agree. I do.  

Marlee:

So, I want to start off by saying I will always see cheating in a long-term monogamous relationship as a bad choice, and I think you agree with me. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

I think that when two people have come together, they've committed to one another, whether it's living together, marriage, they've had children, they're commingling funds, they're intertwining their lives. At that point, if you're willing to get to that stage and have that level of commitment, if this is not the right person for you, you should have figured that out a while ago. All right? 

02:22 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

I really do. When you start cheating at this stage, I think you are basically behaving in a very destructive way towards yourself as well as towards your partner and the potential family you might have.

Lis:

Absolutely.

02:35

Marlee:

However, if in fact you find yourself in a long-term committed relationship that started off on a good enough foot, but through the years you kind of realized this isn't working, or we just no longer work well together. Maybe at one point we did, but now we don't. 

Lis:

Okay.

Marlee:

And you're feeling incredible dissatisfaction, and you're feeling trapped, and you're feeling sad, and you're feeling angry. At that point, for a lot of people, it's the infidelity that allows them to free themselves. Does that make sense? There's a difference between, I see your face, but let me just finish my thought.

03:16

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

I feel like there's a difference between a person who wants to have their cake and eat it two. Meaning they want to be in a relationship with somebody. They want to have kids, they want to like share finances, they want to share the division of labor or have somebody take care of them, but they think they can step out on them with a side piece and do whatever the hell they want because it to get their rocks off. 

03:38 

Lis:

Okay.

Marlee:

I think that is absolutely inappropriate. But if somebody's in a relationship and their lives really are intertwined and they just recognize they no longer work well together, it's just not a healthy situation. It's not per se that it's abusive or anything. It's just, it's no longer a beneficial situation for either them or their partner.

04:00 

But they don't have the balls yet to just leave. There needs to be a catalyst. I can see how in those situations, people almost have this self-discovery. They cheat because they're dissatisfied, but while they're cheating, they recognize that this really is the bad relationship. It's not what they want, it's not good for them, and they use it as the catalyst to leave. Does that make sense? 

04:25

Lis:

It does. I mean, it does make sense, and I know I'm sitting here nodding my head because I do think that as you're like describing all of those things, you can almost empathize with somebody going through that situation, but then I'm like when you think about the other person and the other partner in that relationship, I just feel that when you have made a commitment and you are in a monogamous relationship, regardless of your own personal self-discovery, you still owe it to that other person, a level of respect to not cheat on them. 

Marlee:

I agree with you.

Lis:

If you are feeling that dissatisfied and trust me, like there's. It's a judge free zone. People evolve and people change. And over the course of our lives, we make a million decisions every day that lead us to a different place than we are today. And I think there is nothing wrong with owning the fact that you're dissatisfied or that you've changed and you've evolved, and you feel that a relationship no longer serves you. But I feel that when you've made a commitment and you are in a monogamous relationship, you owe it to that partner regardless of how long you've been together to have that conversation.

05:41 

Marlee:

No, so I agree. 

Lis:

And I'm not saying that the feelings aren't valid that you're having, but you've made a commitment. 

Marlee:

No, I agree. Look, I think the point I'm trying to make is that I will always see it as being a bad decision. I think that if you truly are having those feelings, it's best to separate. It's best to maybe explore through therapy. But I will say that I think this is especially true for a lot of women…

6:06

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

They start to feel at a certain stage in life that they're being ignored, that they're being mistreated, that the relationship isn't what they thought it was going to be, that they're not quite getting out of it, what they had expected to get out of it.

06:20 

And I think that they are looking for that emotional connection, that physical connection. They want to feel loved, they want to feel appreciated. And I think for a lot of women, they take the attitude of, they're afraid. But they kind of dip their toe in that water and realize, wait a second, I can do this on my own and I deserve something more than what I have.

06:52

And they decide to go out that door. Now, I think that for men it's probably more about a physical satisfaction. I think for women it's probably more about an emotional satisfaction.

Lis:

I think that is fair.

Marlee:

Again, I'm just trying to understand why somebody would engage in that type of behavior. 

Lis:

Well, I think by the point you just made, taking like a woman, for example, I feel like a woman, and you said, used the word fear and I think that by them cheating or finding somebody else that has given them the attention or whatever it is that they might have felt that they were lacking… It only gives them the bravery to leave because they feel like they have something else to go to.

07:25

Marlee:

Which is always a mistake.

Lis:

Which is always a mistake.

Marlee:

Because they rarely do. 

Lis:

And that's exactly what I was going to say. And so it's not necessarily the idea that they're going to be so great on their own, they're looking for somebody else to feel fill another void.

07:35

Marlee:

No, but you know, I disagree. 

Lis:

Okay. 

Marlee:

Because I think for a lot of women, when they do wake up and even though, yes, I think initially they thought they were going to go from one person to the other…

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

And find that true love. When you find yourself in a relationship that just isn't working for you and feels more like a burden, once you free yourself of that burden, even if you're not in the romantic relationship you envisioned with the new person, you're probably in a better position than you were prior.

07:59

Lis:

Because you've released all of the things that were holding you back and that you had to fight for?

Marlee:

That’s right because you're doing something that benefits you as well as the other person. Because the only way a relationship is truly beneficial is if both people have a positive experience. It's true.

08:15

So that would be my sort of thoughts on it. Now if I'm thinking about younger me, right? I was a serial monogamist. And while I wouldn't tell myself, yeah, go and cheat on people, what I would tell myself is don't be monogamous. 

Lis:

Right.

Marlee:

That's what I would've told myself going back to when I was younger, when I was first really learning about my wants, my needs, the romantic relationships, and what I thought they were. Starting to learn about my own sexual desires.

08:44

I wish I hadn't been such a straight arrow in the sense of being in serious monogamous relationships. I wish I had done more dating. I wish I had been more open to different types of experiences. 

Lis:

Yeah.

Marlee:

Because it's not that I'm not very happy where I am now, but I just think it would've given me better stories.

09:06

Lis:

Well, it would've been a different path to get there.

Marlee:

Exactly. 

Lis:

And you might have gotten to a different place sooner in terms of understanding your wants and needs.

Marlee:

That's right. Yeah.

Lis:

And I do think that people get trapped in the notion that monogamy is the best policy when you're younger. Like you want to find your like person, right? 

09:25

Marlee:

Yeah. 

Lis:

And find somebody to connect with. And you know, you've said it in the past, like we are like a species that needs connection and…

Marlee:

Well, I think you're also trying to separate from your family, right? You're trying to get that independence, but you then don't want to be on your own.

09:40 

Lis:

Right, exactly. 

Marlee:

So you're like, hmm, I need a new family to sort of join and do you kind of look for that partner. I agree. And I think that one of the reasons there is a lot of, I would say, infidelity in younger people's relationships is not because they lack a moral compass or they want to be destructive to their partner. I think it's that they don't know how to end relationships. 

09:59

Lis:

I think that's so fair.

Marlee:

Because that's a skillset you're not taught.

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

How to end something gracefully and healthy. Now, you and I have a podcast about an exit strategy because it's important very early on to understand how to extricate yourself from a situation that is usually emotional.

10:16 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

With the least amount of damage to you as well as to the other person where each individual can walk away with dignity and hopefully a sense of respect for one another. 

Lis:

Right.

Marlee:

But again, this isn't taught. It's rarely taught in the home. It certainly isn't taught in school. So learning how to let your partner know you're not happy is not through direct communication, but to kind of sneak out behind our backs and look for something that you think will make you happy or will satisfy you.

10:45 

Lis:

Right. Exactly. 

Marlee:

You get a lot of people, we've talked about this, that deadlines are an illusion. Get a lot of people that put these deadlines onto themselves, right? That they have to be in a certain type of relationship at a certain point in their life.

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Or else they're somehow a failure. They have to have a kid at a certain point or they're a failure, and it's simply not true. 

Lis:

No.

Marlee:

But I think that when you're in your early adult stage and you're trying to focus on your education, on your career…

Lis:

Right.

Marlee:

On building financial security, and also, like you said on finding a mate, I think that what you're focusing on might be very different than what you actually will need later on in life. Which is why you end up with a lot of dissatisfaction later in life where it requires this sort of self-discovery so to speak.

11:29 

Lis:

You nailed it, right? Yes. You nailed it. Yes.

Marlee:

You, you didn't really focus on the right qualities, which you and I have talked about in the past podcasts. 

Lis:

Yes.

Marlee:

And instead you sort of were going for what this life you think you should have or that you think you want or that society tells you…

11:44 

Lis:

Or that society tells you the timing is there. 

Marlee:

That's right. 

Lis:

Now you have to do this. 

Marlee:

That's right. 

Lis:

When you don't fit that mold and you don't fit that timeline…

Marlee:

That’s right.

Lis:

People start to stress out and they pick partners that may not be a good fit for them.

Marlee:

That aren't a good fit. That's right. And they don't build those foundational traits that you need.

12:00

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

They don't build that strong, solid foundation. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

That then they can build this relationship on, and as a result, when they do start to feel like maybe something's missing or things have shifted or changed. 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

They don't have the communication, they don't have the trust, they don't have the feeling of intimacy.

12:19 

Lis:

Yes. Right. 

Marlee:

They just feel like they're kind of…like what? Like I just woke up and I don't know this person. Or why did I pick this person? 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

Or what the hell was I thinking? And so I do think that due to this, like self-imposed pressure, you fall into a lot of relationships that probably very early on, if you looked under the hood, so to speak.

12:40 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

You'd know weren't going to be a good fit. 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

Right?

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

You didn't really match up on those foundational things. So it's interesting because again, I would never condone you being destructive by going out and cheating on your partner and exposing them to, as we've said…

Lis:

Yes.

Marlee:

Illness, a psycho, hurt feelings, financial difficulties. 

Lis:

Right.

13:04

Marlee:

Instead, I would say be more mature, be more responsible and accountable, to your partner and actually say, okay, you know what? This isn't working for me. I'm starting to be attracted to another person. You know what? Let me step away from this current relationship because if I'm being that drawn to another individual, over my current partner so much that I am willing to step out on them…

Lis:

Something's missing.

13:27

Marlee:

Exactly. That right there tells you something is missing, there's something broken, and again, it's a “you” problem. 

Lis:

Yep. A hundred percent. 

Marlee:

Now there's something that you are perceiving as being broken. 

Lis:

That's right.

Marlee:

Now it might, there might actually be something broken, but it very well may not be, it might be a very personal perspective.

13:47

Lis:

Right. Well, and that's exactly it. I was going to say, if you as a person feel that there is something broken or missing, you are not with the right person. And maybe it's a timing thing, maybe it's not.

Marlee:

But that's why you have to be the one to end it. 

Lis:

It's a “you” problem. 

Marlee:

It's a “you” problem. Absolutely.

14:03

Lis:

You know, and you made a really good point, and I do think that the younger you are, we were not prepared with the right tools to communicate properly. And I do hope that, like you said, that if you are in a relationship with somebody, that you can have the maturity to end it the correct way rather than hurting somebody else that you obviously love or have loved to get to the point that you're at or maybe you haven't, maybe this is a casual dating and you just need to have a good exit strategy and be able to communicate that. But I do think that this age group, and I'm talking probably 25 and younger, I don't want to say I give anybody a pass for cheating because I always feel like there's a better way. But I do feel like you are in such a period of discovery and really trying to figure out who you are. 

14:47

Marlee:

Yeah. 

Lis:

And if I was going to give a pass to any age group in terms of, as long as you're not in a committed marital relationship and you are really trying to figure out who you are. I'm not giving you a pass. There's a better way, but I can understand. 

15:04

Marlee:

Okay. It's so funny you say that because the group that I would give a pass to is 65 and older. 

Lis:

Well, that I can also say, I could see why people would give them a pass. 

Marlee:

I would give them more of a pass in the sense that I would take the attitude, you've lived the majority of your life…

Lis:

Right.

15:20 

Marlee:

If you made a commitment and you honored it and you helped raise your children, or you built financial security, whatever it is you did with your partner, but you just recognize, “I don't know how much time I have left on this planet, and I'm not happy. Like I don't really like this person. I'm not feeling it.”

Lis:

Right.

15:38

Marlee:

I don't think you should be doomed to spend the rest of your life with an individual that you really don't want to be with. But I also understand that you're now at a stage where you have way fewer options, so that must be very scary. You are more likely to get sick or need someone to care for you, right, as you're older.

16:00 

Lis:

Yeah, of course. 

Marlee:

And therefore, if you do wrong that partner, you better believe you're being left alone. 

Lis:

Oh, yeah. 

Marlee:

Which can be terrifying. 

Lis:

Sure. 

Marlee:

So I get the idea of kind of saying, been there, done that. The relationship didn't give me what I wanted. I want to take that last chapter of my life and find love or happiness or adventure or like hot sex or whatever it is. And listen, people 65 and older are having a lot of sex. 

16:25

Lis:

Oh, I read the articles. 

Marlee:

No, let me tell you something. Sexually transmitted infections are having higher and higher rates in this population. 

Lis:

Yeah. I don't doubt it. 

Marlee:

So that tells you they're doing it. 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

All right. But while I, again, do not condone them cheating, I understand the attitude. I still think it's a disrespectful behavior. I still think that it's financially foolish. I still think it's thoughtless. I still think it ends up leaving a lot of collateral damage. 

Lis:

Totally. 

Marlee:

But I will say that while I'm somewhat forgiving of people in their younger stage of life or middle stage of life.

17:05

I don't know. I guess maybe it's because I am midlife and I'm giving myself a little window into the future. I don’t know. But I'd like to think that if I was no longer happy, I currently am very happy. But if I was no longer happy when I was a little bit older, I'd like to think that, well, I'd like to think that I'm enough of a person that's responsible to be able to say to my partner, this isn't working and leave, not cheat.

17:31 

Lis:

I was going to say, I don't see you doing that.  

Marlee:

But my point is, is that I can see how you kind of want to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak, when you're like in your late sixties, seventies, eighties. 

Lis:

Yeah, I mean, I get it.

Marlee:

I mean, hell, why not? You're lucky if you even have teeth to eat the cake.  

Lis:

I know, but there's so many drugs nowadays that, you know, I can understand why people are having that much sex at that age. 

Marlee:

Yeah. I mean, they're living longer and like you said, they're getting performance enhancement drugs and other things.

17:55

Look, I guess the way we'll end this is that I do think that infidelity, when you look at it from the perspective of the different sort of life stages and the level of seriousness of the relationships that tend to happen in those life stages. 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

I can absolutely understand that there could be an argument for it to be destructive, certainly. But I can also see there might be an argument for it to serve as a catalyst for self discovery. 

18:27

Lis:

There you go. 

It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.

Marlee:

It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. Today's topic, When People Change Their Style of Dress or Appearance to Please a New Partner.

18:44

Lis:

Hmm. Okay. Yeah. 

Marlee:

Would you like to go first? 

Lis:

Sure. I'll take it. 

Marlee:

Go ahead. 

Lis:

All right. Adjusting the way you dress to fix your partners insecurities is B.S. 

Marlee:

Yep. 

Lis:

You'll eventually resent them for that and yourself too. 

Marlee:

Yep. 

Lis:

If the reason for wanting you to change your clothes are out of jealousy, that's unacceptable. My style of dress, in most cases, relates to me as a person in every relationship. There's a fine line between compromise and losing yourself. And lastly, we all want to look nice for our partner and still be true to ourselves and our style at the same time. And I think that's okay. 

Marlee:

Here, here. I love it. All right, those were good. So here are mine. 

19:28 

Lis:

All right. Bring it on. 

Marlee:

Clothing is so personal for many people. It usually takes a significant reason for a person to change their dressing style or their physical appearance. It signals a part of the person's identity, comfort level, personal expression, cultural representation, class, and gender preference.

19:48 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

If a person is changing the way they dress or look to please a partner, it could signal something more sinister. Maybe the new partner insulted their previous style or critiqued their clothing choices or looks, which is absolutely unacceptable and should be seen as a red flag. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

It could be that the new partner wants the person to display more of their body, which is a form of objectification. Or in the case of wanting their person to show less of their body and cover up is a form of either control or just insulting.

20:21 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

If someone changes the way that they dress for a new relationship, it could also be seen as manipulative or misleading. Hello, padded bra. Maybe a person purchases more expensive clothing or they try to appear more sophisticated because they think they're playing a role and they're trying to please their partner. It will backfire.

20:44

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Absolutely. It's off-putting to friends and family because clothing is often a calling card, and when people drastically change their appearance, it causes discombobulation.

Lis:

Oh yeah. 

Marlee:

It really does. I get wanting to change your appearance for yourself. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

Be a chameleon. Do whatever you want. Reinvent yourself. That's all about you.

21:06

Lis:

Take risks, take chances. That's right. Yeah. 

Marlee:

But the moment you start changing how you look and how you dress to please another person or to try and get another person, you're playing with fire. You're basically selling your identity to the highest bidder. And that's not acceptable.

21:25

Lis:

Nope.  

Marlee:

That is not what you should be doing. That is not what a Romancipated person does. 

Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast, or to learn more about us, visit www.Romancipation.com. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive notifications of new episodes right when they're released.

21:51

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