S4 Episode 3: Independence is the Secret to Relationship Longevity
Episode Summary
Independence is one of the sexiest qualities a person can possess. Men and women are drawn to an independent person. Why? Because when someone has interests and friendships outside of their romantic partnerships it sends a very clear message: I don’t need to be with you to be happy, I want to be with you because you make me happy!
A common mistake people make when searching for a romantic partner is basing their ability to get along with another person as evidenced by sharing common interests like a love of the outdoors or a preference of a certain genre of music. While it can be a bonus to have some hobbies or passions that match up, it is not necessary for a romantic relationship to thrive. To be able to share experiences that are significant with a partner or expose them to something new is exciting and can help create intimacy. It can nurture empathy and acceptance but it is not enough to sustain the relationship in the long-term.
Shared hobbies or passions is different than commonalities like shared belief systems, cultural and religious backgrounds and compatible wants and needs that form a strong foundation of a romantic partnership. A healthy relationship should consist of two partners that support one another in things they both enjoy together as well as experiences they enjoy as separate individuals. A couple should be the joining together of two whole people, not two halves that create the whole.
At the end of each episode, Marlee and Lis vent about commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. In this episode, the ladies discuss people that play games with another person’s emotions and the detrimental impact it has on relationships.
Show Notes
It’s important to have some of your own interests, hobbies, and relationships outside of the relationship you have with your partner. Not only will having independence give you something to talk about when you’re with your partner again, but it also leads to a happier relationship.
You can’t possibly connect on every single layer with your partner, so it only makes sense you would need to find options for fulfilling those interests in other ways. Plus, it’s more important to share deep foundational things, like your values, than it is to share all the same hobbies. Having your own things to do away from the partnership makes spending time together even more special.
When you’re independent in a relationship, you stay because you want to, not because you need to. Each partner in the relationship needs space to evolve and have their own new experiences. As long as you continue to appreciate and check in with each other, it will not influence your relationship in a negative way.
Being independent also gives you self-confidence, personal responsibility, and also builds respect and trust. A Romancipated person knows this. If there’s something you’re passionate about, put time aside to do it for you. When you’re a happier person, you’re a better partner.
In this episode, the vent session topic is: When people think it’s a game to play with someone’s feelings. It’s a huge red flag. Being mean or manipulating another person comes with the intention to have power over another person. This person wants to be in control and make you feel weak. It’s destructive, disrespectful, and should not be tolerated.
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Visit us at www.romancipation.com
Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating, and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.
It's time to rethink your approach to your love life, take charge and get romancipated.
Marlee:
Today's topic, Independence is the Secret to Relationship Longevity.
Lis:
Yeah, it is.
Marlee:
It absolutely is. I think that this is so obvious to you and me, and yet I cannot tell you how many women in particular I have spoken to who somehow think that if they are independent in interests, in hobbies, in relationships outside of their marriage or their relationship, that some how they're not being a good partner.
Lis:
Oh my gosh, I've heard men say this too.
Marlee:
Really?
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
Because I feel men are very good at this. I feel men are actually very good at separating their independence from their relationships, and I think for a lot of women, they aren't. They struggle with this, and yet I think independence is one of the most attractive.
qualities in women as well as in men.
Lis:
I agree.
Marlee:
You know, I feel that people have their own friends, their own work, their own hobbies or passions, you know, separate from their partner. They end up having higher levels of happiness. I feel like they have so much more to talk about.
Lis:
Yeah, absolutely.
Marlee:
You know what I mean? They're more interesting.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
They're more engaging. There are more layers to them.
Lis:
Listen. I totally agree with that. I think that you and your partner have connected on certain similarities.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
There's definitely a deep connection. There's something there that drew together and it is so healthy to have outside interests.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
And it's not, you can't possibly connect on every single layer.
Marlee:
Thank you.
Lis:
On every single thing. Every single interest, how boring would that be?
Marlee:
I know.
Lis:
It would drive me crazy if I literally had to spend 24 hours a day with like…
Marlee:
Okay, now listen, the idea of dating or marrying somebody like me, exactly like me sounds so desirable.
I can't even explain it. I mean, it would be the marriage of the century. So I mean, I can't totally poo-poo it, but no, seriously, I do think that the couples that I've at least seen where they came together because of shared hobbies.
Lis:
Sure.
Marlee:
You know what I mean? And interests. But they come from very different cultural backgrounds, very different belief systems.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
Different ways of looking at finances, different like, you know, sex drives. Those are the relationships that I think implode really quickly because the only thing that they really share are like the hobbies and the passions. Do you know what I mean?
Lis:
Sure.
Marlee:
But they, they don't share the deeper foundational things.
Lis:
Ooh, okay. That's like, that's super interesting. I've never really thought of it from that perspective. Yeah.
Marlee:
Yeah. I feel like those relationships actually end up not working out the way, the ones where people are drawn to each other because they do share the respect and the trust, and there's communication and there's personal responsibility, there’s boundaries.
All the things you and I talk about in being romancipated. But then they can have completely separate interests. Do you know what I mean?
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
They don't need to have the same interests. And it's like it gives them not only when they're together, they get to focus on one another, but then when they're apart, then they meet other people and they get enriched in their lives when they do come back together that evening, or you know, on the weekends or whenever they're spending special time together.
They have really interesting new things to tell each other.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
Do you know what I mean?
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
And can share like funny stories or things that they've learned that maybe they want to teach their partner. I think that is just so important. You know, when you have a life separate from the relationship also it makes you appreciate the partnership.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Right.
Lis:
Well, as long as your partner is also acting interested in what brings you joy and your interest as well. Right?
Marlee:
Okay. Well no, I'm going to disagree with you on that because I can tell you my husband has a particular passion, which I find very boring.
Lis:
But you still listen?
Marlee:
I do, okay. You know what it is?
Okay, you're right. I do listen, but I pretend to listen. No, but this is it.
Lis:
I know I do some bobble head myself. That's fine.
Marlee:
Yeah. So, okay. This is what it is. I am so happy that he has this outlet and that he has this passion and that it brings him so much joy. And I do support him in pursuing that passion of his I do.
Lis:
Right. You're not stopping him from doing it.
Marlee:
Exactly.
Lis:
You're not like putting up rails and being like, nope, you cannot do that.
Marlee:
Like, am I going to go out there in the cold weather and like be his cheerleader? No, I am not. I'm a little too selfish for that. I won't. And vice versa. The passions that I tend to have and my interests, he fully admits he's not particularly into them.
So I kind of have to drag him to some of the things. And in the moment, I think he'll enjoy them. Right. But you know, it's not as though he's like lining up to be like the first one to go with me.
Lis:
So he's not lining up to be your cheerleader either.
Marlee:
No, he's not. You're right. Shame on him. You're right. I'm going to use that on him.
No, I mean, but the fact is though, he is very supportive again, of me pursuing my interests.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
I don't know. I just think that when you're not co-dependent in the relationship,
Lis:
I think that's a great word. Yeah.
Marlee:
It makes you stay because you want to, not because you need to, not because of the co-dependency.
Lis:
Right. No, you know, I love that. I love it.
Marlee:
I also think that as we evolve, as we get older, as our interests change, I know I've heard a lot of times from friends, I'm sure you have too. Once kids grow up and they're out of the house.
Lis:
Absolutely.
Marlee:
Some of the people in the relationship, usually the women spent so much time focused on the kids that the whole time they were growing apart from their spouse.
Or their partner. And when the kids are gone and they no longer have something to sort of focus on, that's a commonality. The relationship just fizzles. There's nothing there.
Lis:
I think you made a good point though, because perhaps their commonalities were the kids, not the foundational piece.
Marlee:
Yeah.
Lis:
Or the, you know, the few things that maybe they did together that paired up. Because I think as the kids tend to get older, they do have different needs and different parents will focus on different things with the children. And I do think the second they leave the house, a lot of people end up looking like, what am I going to do now?
Specifically the women that have like chosen to stay home. I think that when you have your own interests, it gives you an outlet that doesn't necessarily need to include your spouse, and you're not constantly looking at that person for entertainment for what's next. Now what are we going to do?
Because, they've kind of built their own life as well. And I think a lot of people end up resenting the fact that men or women have continued on with their careers and now, they're stuck at home and what are they going to do to fill their time?
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
So it's almost like they're looking for their spouse to be that person, and I don't necessarily think that's always fair either.
Marlee:
No, I agree.
Lis:
I think you have to choose to make yourself happy so that you don't become co-dependent, because I think that that's a huge red flag in any relationship.
Marlee:
I do too. I also want to mention that while I think you and I certainly support people having their own outside independent interests. When that interest overtakes the life.
Do you know what I mean? And it has a negative or detrimental impact on the relationship, right? Because the priority is no longer the family or the relationship. It becomes like that outside interest. I think that's a problem. That for me is a huge problem.
Lis:
Yeah. I've seen that happen so many times too.
And it becomes, the hobby becomes the…
Marlee:
Yes. It takes over everything. Everything, everything. The money goes to it.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
The time goes to it, the energy goes to it. I'm not talking about that either. There needs to be a balance, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
Lis:
There has to be a balance.
Marlee:
There has to be a space for each partner to evolve and have outlets for new experiences because people also, they do evolve at different paces.
At different points, like you said, maybe one spouse or one partner's focused on their career while the other's focused on the family. And you know, as you age and as kids grow up and as you get further along in your career, your job, different opportunities present themselves.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
But I do think that as long as you…
constantly check in with each other, you know what I mean?
Lis:
That's a great point.
Marlee:
And, appreciate each other and certainly have a united front against the kids. I know me and my husband can't wait for them to leave. I hope they're not listening. We love you. Um, no, but you know, we have a lot of plans, big plans when they finally get out of the house.
But no, I do think that when you are on that same page, it absolutely reduces the chance of resentment growing. Because resentment really is the cancer to relationships.
Lis:
Absolutely.
Marlee:
It just is, and I think that the more independent you are also, I feel it gives you a self-confidence to advocate for yourself. I feel it gives you the confidence to take personal responsibility.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
And accountability. I think that it actually allows you to have more empathy towards your partner.
Lis:
Yeah, absolutely.
Marlee:
And I think it absolutely builds respect.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
You know, and hopefully trust, because hopefully your partner's side hobby is not another person.
Lis:
When the side hustle is a hustler.
Marlee:
Yes, exactly.
You know, but I do think all these things come together and I think a romancipated person knows this. So, I encourage our listeners. If there's something you're interested in, if there's something you're passionate about, but you always said, oh, but you know, I have all these other responsibilities, you know, with my relationship and my family, everybody needs to put a little time aside for themselves.
And I think that when you are a happier person and a more engaged person, you just become a better partner to somebody.
Lis:
I actually personally find it very attractive when my partner or now my spouse has an outside interest. I mean, for me it's, it's almost like a level of sexiness. I don't know.
I love it.
Marlee:
It’s funny you say that because I think that outside interests can bring some spice into the bedroom. I think it really does. I think, for example, if you get a little more bendy, little more stretchy maybe.
Lis:
Ooh, you're doing something.
Marlee:
Maybe you're learning pole dancing, or maybe, you know, you're working on your strength training.
I don't know. I mean, you know, you can bring some of that stuff, or you know, maybe your stamina. Right? Maybe your cardio's better. What I'm saying is you can bring it into the bedroom. I think you can spice things up. You can make it more interesting. I think that also it's great modeling for your kids.
Lis:
Totally.
Marlee:
I think it's important for them to see if you do have children, that you're more than just a parent and you're more than just a partner or a spouse, that you're also a person and you have lots of different aspects to who you are. You know, I also think that it's as just like as relationships ebb and flow in the romantic realm.
I think for friendships it's the same thing. Depending on your interests, at each point in your life, you have the chance to develop new friendships.
Lis:
That's right. That's a great point.
Marlee:
That is really important to making you feel more complete and it's going to make you a better partner.
I also think that when you have outside things, it really helps develop intimacy.
Lis:
It definitely does.
Marlee:
Like not just physical intimacy, but also emotional intimacy. I think it creates a situation where people are willing to express a vulnerability and a willingness to be open and try something new.
And I know for me, my husband has absolutely opened my eyes to certain things. I think I've opened his eyes to certain things through our outside interests and hobbies.
Lis:
Right, exactly.
Marlee:
And you know, I certainly at cocktail parties, there's things that I can talk about that I really never knew anything about, but because of his particular deep dive into that hobby or passion, I now know a lot more about it.
And you know, it sometimes surprises people what I can talk about, you know? No, really, you know, I mean, because again, I think that men do have a tendency to be more independent, like I said, and they do have a tendency to feel much more comfortable pursuing their passions and then talking about them.
Lis:
No, they do.
You know what, I agree with that, but I think like when I was talking about the men in my life in particular that have expressed kind of, they were definitely younger and trying to kind of figure out what they wanted in a partner, and I think that there were times where they would feel confused if the person that they were dating.
Didn't kind of match up with all of the things that they were looking for and, and it was more, you know, it was more from that perspective. And I think, you know, they were like, well, you know, I really like to go to the museums, or I really love to watch football, or I really love to do these things.
And she has zero interest in it. I'm like, that's amazing. I was like, good for you and good for you that you can still have a great partnership with somebody that lets you appreciate the things that you love to do independently.
Marlee:
Okay. But so I think, again, we had touched on this earlier and I think it's very true.
I think when you're younger, a lot of people somehow think that the best coupling is when you match up on these interests. Like, “oh, I'm really into football. She doesn't like football. I guess I can't date her”. Right? It's like, dude, what are you talking about? You know? And that's what I mean her, “oh, I'm really into art history, and oh, he just doesn't appreciate Van Gogh”.
It's like, so what? Who cares? Yeah. So I think that a lot of people, they are sort of focusing on the wrong things. And it's funny because I actually read an article about, you know how you always bring up like the online dating, the swiping and stuff.
Lis:
Yeah. That's how they do it too.
Marlee:
Yeah. And how people will read in another person's description that they like the office. Apparently liking the office is a purity test and…
Lis:
Oh my God.
Oh, the TV show? I was like you like working?
Marlee:
No, no. The TV show. And if you don't like the office or you don't think the office is funny, that somehow like you guys aren't going to get along. I don't know about you and your husband, but our tastes in movies, in books, in music.
Lis:
Oh, right. Totally different.
Marlee:
Totally different. And yet I have been exposed to some very cool things through my husband.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
I've exposed him and I'm sure it's the same with you.
Lis:
It is.
Marlee:
So again, you don't need to match up on everything to find that connection.
Lis:
Absolutely.
It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.
Marlee:
It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships.
Today's topic, When People Think it's a Game to Play with Someone's Feelings.
Lis:
Ugh. Mind games.
Marlee:
I cannot stand mind games.
Lis:
I can't either. Oh my Lord.
Marlee:
Who wants to go first? Do you want to go first?
Lis:
Oh, I'm going to take, I'll take it.
Marlee:
Yeah, take it away.
Lis:
Okay. So, I think being unnecessarily mean or manipulating another person.
All signs of mind games in a relationship center around having power over the other person.
Marlee:
Absolutely.
Lis:
I think mind games are actions insecure people use to be in control of a relationship or on a date.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
I think it also allows people to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and their own feelings.
And I think that people play mind games. They want something. They want to be in control. They want to manipulate you. They want to make you feel weak because they need to feel important.
Marlee:
Right? Yes. Okay. No, those are good. Okay. I'm going to say mine starting off. Huge red flag.
Lis:
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Marlee:
Huge. Yes. It shows incredible immaturity.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
And insecurity, like you said, on the part of the person playing the mind games.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
It's like you said, a power play in the relationship. It's manipulative. It's destructive. I consider emotionally abusive.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
I think it's a learned behavior that unfortunately is easily passed on to children.
Lis:
Ooh. Yes.
Marlee:
I think it's an incredibly disrespectful behavior and I think it is an absolute violation of relationship boundaries.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
It shows no sense of personal responsibility or accountability on the part of the person playing mind games.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
It's like they can never stop and think about the end result.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
Or the consequences of what they're doing. It signals the game player, lacks empathy for the person they are playing with. It is so hurtful and damaging to the person who is being played. I can't imagine you claiming that you care about somebody and still be willing to hurt them and intentionally doing so.
It creates trust issues in the relationship, and it leaves the person who's being played, they have major trust issues in their future relationships.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
It's destructive to a person's self-esteem and sense of self-worth. It's dangerous behavior and it should never be tolerated. The person who engages in this type of behavior is in serious need of therapy.
Lis:
Yes, they are.
Marlee:
I really do believe it.
Lis:
Me too.
Marlee:
It's some bizarre ego trip that comes from causing other people pain. It is a very unhealthy behavior.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
And as I started my vents, it is a red flag. Do not accept this type of behavior from someone. I feel so strongly about that. That whole like, don't hate the player, hate the game.
It's like, no! You get to choose whether or not you want to play in the game.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
And if you want to actually be a player in the game, then you're an asshole.
Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast or to learn more about us, visit www.romancipation.com.
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