Finances and Philosophy: Questions to Ask Your Partner Part 2

00:00 

Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating, and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.

00:30

It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated.

Marlee:

On today's episode. Finances and Philosophy: Part Two Questions to Ask Your Partner. You need to be able to have these conversations. You need to be able to ask these questions. Do you plan to have children and how many and what if you need to spend on fertility treatments, which are very expensive or surrogacy or adoption.

00:58

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

Which are all very expensive. If you yourself, cannot have children, and we both know with each child the cost rises exponentially. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

The size of the home, you'd have to have, depending on the number of children, the size of a car, you'd have to have, depending on the number of children…

Lis:

You've got it.

Marlee:

The type of medical insurance, if you can get medical insurance. The type of investments, saving for their education. Saving for the education of one child is very different than saving for the education of three children. 

Lis:

Got it. 

Marlee:

Right? 

Lis:

Wow. Yes. 

Marlee:

What if you have twins or triplets and you have to pay for everybody at the same time?

01:31 

Lis:

Man.

Marlee:

No, but I mean…

Lis:

You're right. 

Marlee:

These are things you need to talk about. 

Lis:

You're right. 

Marlee:

Do you have life insurance? 

Lis:

Yep, that's an important one. 

Marlee:

Do you have medical insurance? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Okay. These are things you need to know and why. Or why not? These are questions.

Lis:

They're big questions, and I think that also, I mean, I think even when you pool your money, right, so say you've taken it to the next level and you are getting married and you're pooling your money together.

01:56 

I mean, there's like a new set of questions every day, right? You can talk about how much money can we spend without having to consult one another. 

Marlee:

Right, great question. 

Lis:

Like you're going out and you don't want the surprise on the credit card bill. 

Marlee:

Right. 

Lis:

Or pulling out of your savings account.

02:11 

So I think that that's an important question. And I think you can talk about like what is the cost of, of vacation to you, right? 

Marlee:

Right. 

Lis:

I mean like how much would you spend on a vacation versus, do you want to go to the fanciest hotels or are you okay staying at uh, just, okay hotel? 

Marlee:

Sure. Are you okay with eating leftovers?

02:27

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Are you okay with bringing your own lunch to work? 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Are you okay with making your own coffee in the morning? Are you okay with overdraft fees? Because like you're saying, if you are not in communication with the person and you're both on the same account and one person ends up spending more than they should and the account goes into overdraft, well now you've been charged more fees.

02:45

Right? 

Lis:

Exactly. 

Marlee:

Somebody writes a check and it bounces. Right? 

Lis:

Exactly. 

Marlee:

Again, these are all things you need to know because some people are very comfortable doing that. They're perfectly fine being irresponsible. 

Lis:

Exactly. Oh, well I already know I'm getting paid, you know, next week. 

Marlee:

Yeah. 

Lis:

So I'll cover the cost for that. No big deal.

02:59 

Marlee:

That's right. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

So the next topic, money management. Ask your partner, do you have a budget? 

Lis:

Do you have a budget? 

Marlee:

Do you follow your budget? Because I know a lot of people have budgets. 

Lis:

Exactly. 

Marlee:

But they don't actually follow them. 

Lis:

Exactly. Oh, you got this whole excel spreadsheet over here.

03:11 

Marlee:

Yeah. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

And how long have you had a budget? Has it been successful for you? How often do you reexamine your budget? Because as your income changes, maybe, like you had mentioned, you lose a job. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Or maybe you get a promotion the budget can possibly change. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

And as your family changes, all of a sudden, if you never had childcare in the budget and both parents end up going back to work.

03:32 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

That's a new line item. Maybe you didn't think about it.

Lis:

You need to talk about whether or not you want to bring care into your home. Do you want to have a relative help out? Do you send your child to daycare and the financial impact on your family are very different.

03:46

Yeah. Exactly. You have to ask, is the budget reasonable?

Lis:

Is the budget reasonable.

Marlee:

Because some people's budgets are insanely strict. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Unnecessarily so. And it causes conflict. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

And other budgets are way too loosey-goosey. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

And I don't even know why you'd use the word budget. 

Lis:

Right, exactly. 

04:03

Right? They're not worth the paper they're printed on. 

Lis:

Nope. 

Marlee:

They're just nonsense. Okay. Another big question, are you a spender or saver? 

Lis:

I was going to ask that same question because I think that's huge. 

Marlee:

Yeah. What do you spend your money on? 

Lis:

What do you spend your money on? 

Marlee:

Necessities?

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Or frivolous things.

04:19 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

Oh, by the way, what do you consider a necessity? Because I know what I consider a necessity is very different than what my husband considers a necessity. What do you consider frivolous? Again, we don't necessarily agree on what we consider frivolous. 

Lis:

You got it. 

Marlee:

So you've got to be thinking about this.

04:34

Who's expected to manage the money in your household? 

Lis:

Who's the bill payer? 

Marlee:

Who's the bill payer? That's right. And why should it be you, or why should it be them? Or should it be somebody else? Do you want a bookkeeper? Do you want an outside source? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

And also what makes either you, your partner or the outside source qualified?

04:52

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

I know people let their parents do it. Right? They're adults and they still let their parents do it. 

Lis:

Oh, for the Pete’s sake. 

Marlee:

It's crazy. You need to ask, do you see it as something that you guys would do together? 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Right? That you would co-manage your finances, that you would sit down and pay the bills together?

05:08

That you would develop your budget together? Or is this something where you feel it's a role you want to take? Or you want to give to somebody else, or maybe the role has been pushed onto you. 

Lis:

Right. 

Marlee:

And the responsibilities that come with that. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Are you willing to take that role on, do you feel competent to take that role on you?

05:25

Lis:

You got it. 

Marlee:

Okay. 

Lis:

Good question. 

Marlee:

These are the kinds of things you need to be asking yourself, and you need to be asking your partner. Would you use a professional money manager? Again, some of the people in that type of industry are very slick. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

And not trustworthy. And there's been many situations where people allowed another individual to manage their money, basically to the point of being broke.

05:48

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

So you’ve got to be thinking about that. If your partner thinks that it's okay to outsource this type of very important job in the family.

Lis:

Right. Yup.

Marlee:

You should be asking, do you believe in saving the money for the emergency fund? How much, again, we spoke about emergency funds, but a lot of people talk about it, but they don't actually do it.

06:10

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

It's one of those things where people like, oh yeah, I should really do that, but they don't actually do it. 

Lis:

No. 

Marlee:

And do you do a bulk amount and then it's just there? Or do you monthly contribute so that it like grows to a certain amount? Do you cap that amount? Right, where you say, okay, we're always going to have $2,000 that never gets touched unless it's an emergency. Oh, and by the way, who decides what an emergency is? 

Lis:

Right.

Marlee:

Right.? You’ve got to pre decide what do you think of as an emergency? 

Lis:

These are such great questions that I would guess the majority of our listeners have not asked. 

Marlee:

I would agree. And if we're wrong, shame on us.

Lis:

But, well, I know that there's certain questions here that I haven't even asked that we're talking about, and I'm pretty open with our conversations about money.

06:50

I mean, but now I'm sitting here thinking, Geez. Yeah. I need to go ask. I need to go ask that question, or at least really have a full understanding of what my husband's perspective is on it, because these are great questions. 

Marlee:

Yeah. I mean, listen, another thing you’ve got to ask, what type of lifestyle are you looking for?

Lis:

Right.

07:06 

Marlee:

Because you know what? If you envision a lifestyle that is just completely unrealistic based on your current income…

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

That's a red flag. 

Lis:

Huge red flag. 

Marlee:

That's a red flag. If you are spending in a way that is what you are hoping for, it's almost aspirational. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

That's a red flag. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

It just is. 

Lis:

Well, yeah, and, and when that doesn't happen, that's going to lead to a world of uncomfortable conversations, unhappiness. 

Marlee:

Yes, it will. And again, you have to figure out what your motivation is and what your partner's motivation is when it comes to money and how you're going to spend it. You’ve got to figure out why you want that particular lifestyle.

07:49

Are you trying to keep up with the Joneses? Are you trying to replicate what you had growing up? Are you trying to fill in for deficits that you didn't have growing up? 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

These are questions you have to ask yourself and each other because it will absolutely impact how you spend and save.

08:05

Lis:

You're absolutely right. And I mean, listen, like I do think that a lot of people fall into that trap of they try to keep up with the Joneses. I think that was a really great point that you just made. And a lot of people, even if that wasn't necessarily their expectation going into a relationship, all of the sudden they see all of these things that their friends are doing or their siblings are now doing.

08:27

Marlee:

Or their neighbors. 

Lis:

Or their neighbors. Yeah. And it does, it feels like a lot of people get wrapped up into feeling like, well, if they have it, I should have it too. And their financial situation does not warrant them spending that kind of money on that type of lifestyle. 

Marlee:

Yeah, absolutely. 

Lis:

You just get wrapped up into it.

08:47 

And a lot of people fall prey and fall victim to wanting things that they shouldn't have. 

Marlee:

The old social media.

Lis:

The old social media.

Marlee:

Boy oh boy does it put ideas in people's heads? 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

That they not only should have something, but that they are entitled to have something.

Lis:

They deserve it. That's right.

09:04

Marlee:

And it sets them down a very ugly path. Another thing that a lot of people don't fully examine when they're talking to a partner is, do you plan to rent or own a home? 

Lis:

Yeah. Great point. 

Marlee:

Because that's big. And you know what? How are you going to make the down payment? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Are you saving for a down payment? Do you expect family members to help you with the down payment?

09:24

Are you going to basically take out a giant loan? Is it going to be a long loan, like a thirty-year mortgage? Is it going to be a ten-year mortgage? Is it going to be a fixed interest rate? Is it going to be a variable interest rate? Which mean that it changes depending on how the interest rate changes, that can hugely impact the payments.

Lis:

You Got it.

09:41

Marlee:

And then do you have a plan for what you're going to do if the mortgage does change? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Okay. Or are you going to refinance? How quickly are you going to refinance? What if you don't qualify for a certain rate because of your credit history or your partner's credit history? 

9:58

I'll tell you something else you need to talk about, furnishing a home. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

Lawn care. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Garbage, utilities. There's a lot of expenses that go into owning a home. 

Lis:

Got it. 

Marlee:

Versus just buying the physical structure. 

Lis:

Oh yeah, the amount of things that break…

Marlee:

Everything that goes in the structure. 

Lis:

Exactly. And if the structure needs to be fixed up.

10:15 

If things break, there's so much that goes in. So when you're budgeting…

Lis:

Yes.

Marlee:

For a home, you’ve got to really take into account all the different costs that most people don't even think about. 

Lis:

Of course you don't. And I will tell you, I was definitely shocked going from a renter in a big city to owning a property.

10:33

Marlee:

Yeah. 

Lis:

And not having a maintenance person to call.

Marlee:

That's right. 

Lis:

And not really understanding the costs of some of the equipment.

Marlee:

The costs associated with maintain a home. Exactly. 

Lis:

I mean obtaining a air conditioning unit or an oven. Or a refrigerator. 

Marlee:

That's right. 

Lis:

I mean, these things are washer and dryer, like, I mean, these things are expensive and they're not things that, if you're expecting to have to buy something new like maybe you are, maybe you're saving up for something. 

Marlee:

Yeah. 

Lis:

But when the expectation isn't there, that your refrigerator is going to break and all of a sudden you have to cough up an exorbitant amount of money to replace the refrigerator because it's a necessity in the house to keep food cold.

11:13

Marlee:

That's right. 

Lis:

It's insane. And if you don't have those savings, where are you getting the money from? 

Marlee:

That’s right. Because you're very unrealistic if you're like, oh, we're just going to kick that can down the road. No, you’ve got to have these conversations upfront because it really does then help shape how your spending habits evolve.

11:32

Lis:

You got it. 

Marlee:

It does. Another question that, again, it's uncomfortable, but people need to have, especially if they do own a home, what are your expectations if the relationship ends? What's going to happen to this property? Are we going to sell it? And split the proceeds. Is one of us going to stay in it?

11:48

Especially if we have children and like raise them in it? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Who's going to stay? Who's going to move? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Are they going to be compensated for leaving? Who put the money up to purchase the home? Who's going to take on the mortgage payments if there's a mortgage? 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

These are all questions you haves to be asking, because guess what?

12:05

For you not to know that answer. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

That's a problem. 

Lis:

That's scary. 

Marlee:

That's a big hole in knowledge. If you don't have that information, you cannot make a thoughtful decision. 

Lis:

Well, and I think a lot of people would say, well, I mean, that's just assuming that our relationship isn't going to work out. That's not the point.

12:22 

Marlee:

Yeah. 

Lis:

The point is having the comfort level of really knowing what your future could potentially look like in a worst-case scenario. Right? I mean…

Marlee:

Absolutely. 

Lis:

And it's not foolproof, but at least having that comfort will give you a peace of mind. 

Marlee:

Well, not only that, you get a sense of your partner's mindset.

Lis:

Right.

12:41

Marlee:

And you also get a sense of yours. It can be very telling to have these conversations. 

Lis:

Yes.

Marlee:

Very telling. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

And believe it or not, again, you and I always talk about empathy, but you might hear somebody's mindset and instantly be like, whoa. But the fact is, give them a chance and explain your side, and they might say, wow, I never thought of it that way.

13:01

Lis:

Yeah.

Marlee:

I've always had this one perspective because that's just what I was raised with, or that's just what I assumed. 

Lis:

Right.

Marlee:

But I never thought of it from your perspective. But if you have these conversations, you can end up talking about important things in the relationship that will reinforce the strength of your relationship.

13:20 

Lis:

Absolutely. 

Marlee:

Or potentially reveal the cracks in the foundation. 

Lis:

Great point. 

Marlee:

And you should always know if there's cracks in your foundation, you really should. Again, partner expectations. We talk about that a lot. Questions to ask, how do you view money? As a means to an end or as a way to define who you are to the rest of the world.

13:37

Lis:

Wow. Great question.

Marlee:

A lot of people, we've talked about this before, there's a lot of people where their money is what defines them. That's their persona. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

It's not that they're a great parent or a wonderful athlete, or they love classical music. No, it's the money. That's how they define themselves.

13:55

That's where they get their value. That's where they get their sense of self-worth. 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

So let me tell you something. If you end up in a relationship with a person, who gets their sense of self-worth from money, and then they think you're going to try and take some of it. That's like trying to take some of their sense of self-worth.

14:09

It's not going to end well. 

Lis:

Wow. 

Marlee:

Just putting it out there. I'm telling you.

Lis:

I'm seeing, yes. I can see a lot of these questions in people. Yeah, yeah.

Marlee:

Yeah. You’ve got to ask them what lessons did you receive from your parents about money, about savings, about investing…

Lis:

About debt, about credit cards.

Marlee:

About credit cards, all those things, because guess what?

14:30

Most people don't get a financial education from their parents. Unfortunately. Their education comes from them just sort of observing and putting bits and pieces together. 

Lis:

Yes.

Marlee:

But they rarely truly have a full understanding of what the financial picture was of their parents and what their parents' financial philosophy was.

14:47

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

An incredibly important question to ask, again, who's expected to earn the money in your household? Does the person who earns the money have more say in how it gets spent? If you're a one income household, how will the money be divided amongst the partners? Do you have to ask for an allowance if you're not the one earning money?

15:05

If you need money to buy groceries or to do something with your child or something even for yourself? Do you have to ask permission? 

Lis:

That feels controlling. Yeah. 

Marlee:

Do you guys have joint accounts, do you have separate accounts? Do you have separate accounts as well as joint accounts? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Do you each contribute a certain percentage of money to the household?

15:23

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

But then you have like play money for yourselves. I mean, these are questions that you need to be asking at any point in a relationship.

Lis:

Yeah, and I was going to say it's not right or wrong, but as long as you have a clarity to the situation and to the overall financial perspective of your partner.

14:40

There is so many different ways that finances can work. 

Marlee:

Yes. Listen, what if you're a two-income household? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

How will the money be divided amongst each of you. 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

I mean, what if you are in a household where you each bring in an income but somebody makes four times what the other person makes?

15:56

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

So does that mean they have four times the say? Does that mean that if I say, well, even though you make four times as much as I do, you have to only put in 20% of your income. But I have to put in 20% of my income for the joint household expenses. But everything else is each for ourselves.

16:13

Because the person who makes four times as much is going to have a hell of a lot more buying power. 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

And investing power than the person who makes, you know, a fraction of that. 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

How is it going to be divided? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

What do you feel is fair? What do you feel is reasonable?

16:26 

Lis:

What's your comfort level? 

Marlee:

Yeah. What's your comfort level? 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

You have to always ask, are you going to make joint monetary decisions, or is it going to be just one person? 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

Who's making the decision? And is that in every case, are you going to divide and conquer? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

Is it that maybe one of you says, you know what, I feel like I should have the investor's role.

16:44 

Because I'm really good at that and another person says, okay, and I feel I should have the budgetary role and like the bill paying role and the savings role. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Because I'm, you know, better at maintaining records. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

And I have more discipline. I don’t know, are you going to agree? 

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

Especially if you guys commingle your funds.

17:00 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

You both should have say.

Lis:

Absolutely. 

Marlee:

Even if you don't commingle your funds, you both should have say.

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

If you're both dependent on this money, you should have a say and what happens to it.

Lis:

You should know where it is and what it is.

Marlee:

At all times. How do you feel about charitable giving?

17:16 

Lis:

You know what? That's a great question. And what charities do you support? 

Marlee:

That's right. Are you all up for societal causes, but you're all down on religious institutions or political donations? 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

What about donating to educational institutions? 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

I mean, everybody has different senses of what they consider charitable.

17:33 

Some people consider giving money to their families as an act of charity. 

Lis:

Absolutely. Yep. 

Marlee:

Gambling. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

How do you feel about gambling? 

Lis:

How do you feel about gambling? 

Marlee:

It's a great question. 

Lis:

That's a question. 

Marlee:

I know a lot of people that I know love that old sports betting. 

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

They think it's not a big deal.

17:48

Lis:

Yep. 

Marlee:

But little sums of money add up pretty darn quickly. 

Lis:

They sure do. They sure do. 

Marlee:

You brought up the whole childcare situation. If somebody needs to stay home for childcare and they're not earning money, first of all, how are their contributions going to be valued?

18:01

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Right?

Lis:

Yeah. 

Marlee:

Or what if they in fact need to go out and work? 

Lis:

Exactly. 

Marlee:

What kind of childcare are you going to get? 

Lis:

That's right. 

Marlee:

And how are you going to pay for it? 

Lis:

Yep. Because it's expensive. 

Marlee:

Don't assume that a relative's just going to help you out for free. 

Lis:

No.

Marlee:

Time is money, my friend. 

Lis:

That's right. And nor should they.

18:16

Marlee:

So these are just a bunch of questions. I know it's a lot, but I think they're so important to be asking the other person at any point in the relationship. It needs to be relevant and it needs to be an open and honest communication. And I will say this again, Lis, if you are not comfortable having these types of conversations with your partner, that is a red flag.

18:40

Lis:

Yeah.

Marlee: 

You have a right to know this information. You have a right and do not put your head in the sand and just hope that everything is going to be okay because you have the power. Be Romancipated, be thoughtful about your financial reality.

18:55

It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.

Marlee:

It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. Today's topic, When Your Partner Expects You to Purchase Gifts for Everyone, for Every Occasion.

Lis:

Oh my gosh. I have to take this one, if you don't mind.

19:13 

Marlee:

Oh, please. 

Lis:

Seriously. I'm the gift giver and it's annoying. 

Marlee:

Go ahead. 

Lis:

All right. If we're being honest, women tend to be the default gift buyers, rappers, and givers. 

Marlee:

Yep. 

Lis:

There is so much pressure and anxiety that goes along with it. The worst is when you're stressed out trying to find gifts, and your partner asks why you're so worked up.

19:32

Just relax. It's just a present. It makes me want to scream. It's laziness on your partner's part. They just don't want to put in the time and it shows a lack of respect for your time. It's manipulation by telling you, you always pick out the best blank or you are always so thoughtful they could be as well.

19:51

Marlee:

Oh, yes. 

Lis:

It's super frustrating, especially when you pick the perfect item and they take the credit. 

Marlee:

Oh, I love it. Oh my goodness. 

Lis:

Clearly, I have feelings about this. 

Marlee:

Yes, you clearly do. No, listen. I do too. So I'm going to say, purchasing gifts can be time consuming, frustrating and stressful. 

Lis:

Yes.

Marlee:

I believe you said that, especially if you're purchasing gifts for friends and family members or work colleagues.

20:18 

Figuring out what people like or will appreciate can be tricky. Balancing thoughtfulness with a budget can be problematic. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

And stressful. People do not like to disappoint when it comes to gifts, so there's always an element of apprehension. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

Expecting your partner to take on this task is thoughtless.

20:38

If your partner wants to get a gift for one of their family members or friends, it should be their responsibility. To pawn it off on you is an overstepping of boundaries. They need to take personal responsibility for nurturing their own relationships. 

Lis:

You got it. 

Marlee:

Expecting someone to act like a parent is disrespectful and immature, and that's really what it always comes back down to.

21:02 

It's this idea that you have to take the role of almost like a parent that, you're the one who has to like decide what to spend, where to spend it, like you said, to wrap it, how to get it to somebody. 

Lis:

Yes. 

Marlee:

There's a lot of logistics. It takes time. It takes energy. And then like you said, they often then take the credit, which sucks.

21:22 

Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast or to learn more about us, visit www.romancipation.com. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive notifications of new episodes right when they're released.

21:43

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