S4 Episode 2: Fifty Shades of Infidelity
Episode Summary
For many, the concept of infidelity in a romantic relationship is black and white. However, what constitutes cheating is open to interpretation, hence the fifty shades. Your partner’s perception of behavior that they deem as unacceptable may be very different from your own. Make sure to understand your partner’s boundaries and comfort level, so that you don’t accidently step over the line.
Moreover, make sure you have a clear understanding of what your own boundaries are and communicate them to your partner. Would you be okay with your partner’s harmless flirting or provocative dancing with a friend at a party? Maybe. Would your feelings change if the same behavior took place outside of your presence? Probably. The point is boundaries are fluid, depending on the time, place and people involved.
Trust is a necessary component for a healthy relationship. If you have been cheated on in the past, your perception of innocuous behaviors may take on a more sinister tone. Make sure your partner knows your triggers so they can avoid creating unnecessary stress in the relationship. If both people are on the same page and are respectful of one another’s boundaries, hurtful mistakes and misunderstandings can be avoided.
At the end of each episode, Marlee and Lis vent about commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. In this episode, the ladies discuss when your partner gives the family pet more attention than they give to you.
Show Notes
Different people have varying perspectives on infidelity. Some people will see it very black and white, while others will see all the shades of infidelity in between. In that sense, the idea of cheating can be subjective. What violates your boundaries or breaches your trust might be defined differently between people and couples.
When a couple first gets together, they rarely have an in-depth conversation about what it actually means to cheat. It’s so important to communicate your definition so you can be sure you’re on the same page, and sometimes you need to broach this topic no matter how serious the relationship is.
Consider this: If you found out your booty call was seeing another person, would you feel cheated on? Some people would; some people wouldn’t. If you haven’t had this conversation, how confident are you that you know where your partner’s boundaries are? That’s why it really comes down to proper communication.
We’ve talked about cyber-cheating in a previous episode, and this is a subject where the conversation with your partner can be very nuanced. Watching porn might be okay in your books, but only if it’s a specific type. You might draw the line at interacting with the performers, or you might not.
In this episode, the vent session topic is: When your partner gives the family pet more attention than you. This happens a lot. On one hand it’s understandable, but on the other it can be infuriating for the person being ignored. A bond with a pet is unconditional and therefore can transcend a human relationship. However, it can cause resentment towards the animal.
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Visit us at www.romancipation.com
Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating, and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.
It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated.
Marlee:
In today's episode, Fifty Shades of Infidelity.
Lis:
Okay.
Marlee:
Okay, Lis, so we've spoken about infidelity in the past, and I think you and I are on the same page in that we see infidelity in a very black and white way.
Lis:
Yeah, I think that's right.
Marlee:
Yeah. But I think we are in the minority.
Lis:
Do you?
Marlee:
I do. I think that most people, when they view cheating on a partner, they have very different perspectives, certainly depending on the type of infidelity. Right? We've in the past talked about like micro cheating, and cyber infidelity.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And you know, emotional infidelity.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Aside from the old, traditional vanilla, physical infidelity. But I do think that not only the type, but also sort of the commitment level of the relationship absolutely influences people's definitions of what constitutes cheating. Right?
Lis:
Yeah. I think that's a fair assessment.
Marlee:
Cheating really is so subjective in that sense. It wasn't until I started really thinking about it that I started to recognize all the different conversations I've had with family, friends, and work colleagues when it comes to infidelity. I think that everybody would agree on the definition in terms of like cheating is really anything that violates boundaries between you and your romantic partner, right?
Which results in a breach of trust between the two people in a relationship.
Lis:
Yeah. Right.
Marlee:
Does that seem like a fair definition?
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
But what then people see as cheating…so we've sort of defined what cheating is.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
But then what fits into the actual definition I think is very different for different people.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
It's interesting because I think it's different for each couple. So many people when they start relationships don't talk about cheating, or if they do, they talk about it in a very black and white way. Like I know I would always say to any guy at the very beginning, if you cheat on me, I'll cut your balls off.
Right? I mean, I don't think it gets any more black and white. But the fact is…
Lis:
Well, that's an aphrodisiac.
Marlee:
Yeah, I know. That's validation. But I don't think I ever defined with any of my partners what actually constitutes cheating…
Lis:
To you.
Marlee:
Or infidelity to me.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Exactly.
Lis:
Okay. Yeah, I say that I definitely did not do that either.
Marlee:
That’s right. I don't think I've ever asked my partner, what do you consider cheating because you and I spoke in previous episode about micro cheating. You and I are big flirts. We like to dress provocatively, we like to dance provocatively. I love to say dirty things. I'm known as a dirty bird, right? So it never even occurred to me to have that conversation.
Lis:
Yes, someone may find that as like a boundary breaker.
Marlee:
Yes. Right?
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
So, the first thing I want to talk about in terms of these fifty shades of infidelity is how important it is to communicate your definition of what you consider to be cheating or a violation of your boundary.
Lis:
I think that's awesome.
Marlee:
I see monogamous as having a very particular definition. I think you do too, but I don't think a lot of people see the word monogamy in the same way. Certainly not at different points of relationships. So for example, I know that if I did a booty call, I would expect the person who is booty calling me to only be booty calling me.
Lis:
What?
Marlee:
Yeah. I would expect a monogamous booty call.
Lis:
Oh girl.
Marlee:
Okay. But that's what I'm trying to say, but it never occurred to me.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
I'm having this revelation. It's like, oh, seriously? Because to me, a booty call is two people that don't want all of the unnecessary stuff that comes with the relationship.
Right? They want to bang without having to buy each other flowers.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
But I would assume that if the sex is good and it's a repeat booty call, why would you need to have sex with someone else? I actually believe this, anytime I have been involved with somebody, I always assumed that if there was any sexual aspect of the relationship, that it was monogamous, but I don't necessarily think that I had the conversation.
Lis:
I was going to say, I think you're on the minority on that one and only because…
Marlee:
…in terms of having the conversation or in terms of both?
Lis:
I feel like if you're having a booty call, I think that that is just sex. I would never assume that that was monogamous.
Marlee:
Really?
Lis:
In my head, never. I mean, if you're having a conversation that you are monogamous with somebody, that means you are in a relationship.
And you're having that conversation.
Marlee:
I feel like you can have a person that you have agreed to have sex with and stay safe and use protection and respect each other while still out there dating and meeting other people. I mean, it's not like what, when you start dating a person, you instantly have sex with them? No.
Lis:
Well, some people do.
Marlee:
But they shouldn't, because remember, most people suck in the sack.
Lis:
Most people do suck in the sack. So some people do. And I will say that now, I mean back in like, you know, my college days or whatever. I mean, if you're hooking up with somebody, you're just hooking up with them.
That's not a monogamous type of thing unless you have a conversation with them to say. This is it we're exclusive kind of thing. Like we are only going to be doing this together.
Marlee:
Hence the reason fifty shades of infidelity. Because I think that I would consider a person I'm doing a booty call with…
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
If then I found out they were banging another person.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I would feel violated. I would feel like they were cheating.
Lis:
Okay. I mean I get that.
Marlee:
And you're telling me that you wouldn't?
Lis:
No, I wouldn't.
Marlee:
I guess what it just goes to show is how critical it is to communicate.
Lis:
And that's what it comes down to. It really is about the communication piece of it.
Potentially it was different back when we were, you know, in that stage of life.
Marlee:
We’re not that old. Come on.
Lis:
Well, but we didn't have the technology that there is today.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
And I feel like now with like all of the different apps and all of the different things out there, I feel like people are going on a lot more dates, you know, and they're having a lot more interaction and potentially of a sexual nature.
And I feel like if you decide to sleep with somebody that you know you've been on a first date with, and then they're going out with somebody tomorrow and they're sleeping with somebody. You didn't have that conversation, I mean, after a first date.
Marlee:
But a first date isn't a booty call.
Lis:
But it could be.
Marlee:
No.
Lis:
Absolutely, it could be.
Marlee:
A booty call…
Lis:
Is like when you call somebody to come over and have sex?
Marlee:
Yeah. It's like you both agree you're just going to have sex with each other.
Lis:
All right. Right.
Marlee:
A date is like you're thinking about a relationship.
Lis:
Yeah. I mean, but a booty call could happen once every like four months.
It doesn't have to happen consistently. You literally pick up your phone and you're like, yeah, I'm in the mood.
Marlee:
Oh, my booty calls were very consistent.
Oh, okay. Not only do I think you have to have the communication and you have to define the boundaries.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
But I also think people need to recognize that even if you're in an open relationship, you still have to define the boundaries.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Even if you're not monogamous. Some people might say, you know what, you can only have sex with one other person and not two other people.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Or you can only have sex with, you know, a person as long as I'm present.
Lis:
Everybody has different shades of what would deem inappropriate versus okay.
Marlee:
Or the violation of their boundaries where all of a sudden something becomes an infidelity in a romantic relationship.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Is dancing with someone other than your partner, cheating?
Lis:
I was going to say no.
Marlee:
But what, all of a sudden, if it's a stripper in a strip club and they're getting grinded on, not like in a club, but in a strip club where they've just paid fifty bucks to get grinded on?
Lis:
And I'm there?
Marlee:
No.
Lis:
Oh, I'm not there.
Marlee:
And unlike in the club, where she or he is clothed, now all of a sudden…
Lis:
You got one naked party.
Marlee:
It's the same behavior.
Lis:
And a lot of people would actually, a lot of people would actually view that as a big violation.
Marlee:
One. I think people would be like, I'm okay with that.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
While other people will be like, maybe not. But with a stripper, I think they're, again, a lot of people who are like, yeah, no big deal. But for other people, like it's a huge deal.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I feel like everybody has such a different worldview. Again, the conversations you would be having with your partner, which I think you should, and I think a lot of people would be uncomfortable, but I can imagine saying to my partner, yeah, you can watch porn, but it's got to be a certain kind.
Does that make sense?
Lis:
Yeah. if it's given what's out there right now…
Marlee:
But that's what I mean. And I don't think I would ever deem watching porn as cheating, but I can see how if my partner started interacting with the porn star right on an Only Fan's page right where they were actually getting messages, I might consider that a violation of my boundaries.
But then again, if that same person is messaging thousands of people?
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Then is it that big of a deal? I don't know. These are the kinds of things I feel like people need to really think about.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
These fifty shades.
Lis:
Absolutely. Of what they would consider a violation. Yes, exactly.
Marlee:
And also, I can tell you the twenty-five year old hottie-patottie, me.
Would I be offended if my partner was looking at porn or paying somebody to do a sex act online? Probably. Because I take the attitude of, are you kidding me? I'm right here.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
But…now after I'm older and I'm tired, I've had kids. Has that boundary changed? These are conversations you have to have with yourself as well as your partner.
Lis:
Well, you know, and you said something at the beginning too that really just made me think, and it's kind of a question that's been percolating, but do you think that people have a different view once they have been cheated on or have cheated on somebody?
Marlee:
Oh my God, that's a great question. Yes.
Lis:
Because I think it's so easy to go into these and kind of say, oh, I would totally do that, or no, I would never do that.
But the second that it happens, or you have yourself cheated on somebody, I think it definitely shifts your perspective.
Marlee:
Absolutely.
Lis:
On what you're willing to accept versus what you're not.
Marlee:
And that is an amazing point. Yes, I agree. I think that absolutely adds in another layer to the fifty shades.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I think that what you've personally experienced, whether you have been the one cheated on or you are the one who has done the cheating.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
I absolutely think it shifts your perspective. And again, that's why you have to have these conversations because I can see the person who's done the cheating as being like, what's the big deal? Come on, you're just having a little fun.
Lis:
It was some heavy petting.
Marlee:
While I can see the person who's been cheated on being very, very hurt and being hyper sensitive to even the slightest flirtation.
Lis:
Absolutely. Exactly.
Marlee:
Something that your I or somebody chatting, you know, with an online porn star, something, I can see them being triggered and being like, this is how the first affair started.
Lis:
Exactly.
Marlee:
So you're right.
That is a great point. And I do think that that is something that absolutely impacts people's perceptions and then also like the Only Fans pages or some of these other online interactions, you have to pay for them. And it can get very expensive.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
Right?
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
And so again, I could see how not only are you violating the physical intimacy and the safety of your partner, but if you get really into that, you are violating the financial security.
I think again, there's a lot of shades of gray of somebody cheating in person with, for example, a stranger versus cheating with someone that both people in the partnership know. That adds another layer.
Lis:
You think that people would view that as different?
Marlee:
Absolutely. I think a lot of people are more able to forgive or look past a stranger encounter versus an encounter with their friend or their work colleagues.
Lis:
Well, yeah. I mean, because then they've been betrayed by two people rather than just one.
Marlee:
Yeah, absolutely. And take it even further. What about if it's a stranger that your partner randomly met or a paid sex worker?
That's a whole other load of shades of gray. The potential of being exposed to disease. But then again, a lot of sex workers use protection.
Lis:
Fair.
Marlee:
Right?
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
And a lot of one night stands maybe don't, because it's passionate. It’s in the moment or…
Lis:
There’s like drugs and alcohol.
Marlee:
Or they're under the influence or something. So yeah, but okay, but let's go there.
Is it more acceptable or easier to forgive if the person that cheats was under the influence of something? Or maybe was under…
Lis:
Versus like premeditation?
Marlee:
Yeah. Versus a premeditated, very conscious choice.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
Versus maybe they were under extreme emotional strain. Maybe they just lost a loved one or experienced some other traumatic event.
And they just in that moment, needed that physical intimacy. I think there can be these different scenarios or situations where maybe, again, these shades of gray come in.
Lis:
Well, and I think that you also made a good point earlier too, that the different stage of life that you're in, would also probably influence how you would react to each of those different scenarios.
Marlee:
Absolutely.
Lis:
And I think your opinions and boundaries can shift and evolve over time as well based on, you know, whether or not you're just dating or living together versus married with children.
Marlee:
Yeah.
Lis:
And I think a lot of those things can definitely change and it really is all about
your level of comfort, your boundary level, and the communication and trust that you have with your partner.
Marlee:
I agree.
Lis:
Because to me, the trust factor, it's a black and white thing for me. Whether or not you're cheating, to me, the gray area falls with the person that most likely has been cheated on and how they react to it.
Marlee:
I absolutely agree. I think that anytime people rationalize or justify when their partner cheats on them, they are often doing it as an attempt to practice self-preservation.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
They'll sort of take that different worldview because they want to practice self-preservation, but in reality, I don't think they're practicing self-preservation at all.
I think a romancipated person recognizes that at a certain point the foundation just doesn't exist in the relationship.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
And you need to cut the cord as painful or as terrifying as that may be. Right? Because I think if you're truly practicing self-preservation, then you are always focused on those important foundational concepts of the relationship.
So if there's no trust and there's no respect, then by definition you have a lopsided foundation.
Lis:
You got it.
Marlee:
Right, and the entire relationship's going to end up falling apart.
Lis:
Right.
It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.
Marlee:
It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships.
Today's topic, When Your Partner Gives the Family Pet More Attention Than You.
Lis:
I’m like laughing, but it's funny. It’s not funny, but I hear it a lot.
Marlee:
Yeah. I mean, I wrote this topic because, I think it happens a lot.
Lis:
It definitely does.
Marlee:
Do you want to go first?
Lis:
Sure. I mean, I'll take it. I mean, to me it's like, there's so many examples of this.
Like do you greet your pet before your partner?
Marlee:
Right.
Lis:
Do you shower your dog or your cat with all sorts of compliments and affection?
Marlee:
Yes. And presents.
Lis:
Does your like social media posts only have pictures of your beloved animal.
Marlee:
Oh, like, that's right.
Lis:
This is like a good one too. Does your pet take up the space in the couch or the bed between your partner?
So it's almost like they don't fit.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
It's like not funny, but you think about all of these different things and you see it all happening and it's got to just feel so bad to be your partner when you do this, but I will say it's not funny, but I actually did read a study because of this topic, and is it normal to love your pet more than your spouse?
And somebody actually did a survey on this.
Marlee:
Are you serious?
Lis:
They did a survey out of a thousand people that they found that 38% love their dog more than their partner or their spouse. That's almost half of people that actually love their pet. I mean, do you think it's because it's unconditional?
Marlee:
Yeah. I mean, listen.
Lis:
I don't know.
Marlee:
Listen, I believe that.
Lis:
I do too.
Marlee:
So it's funny because, okay, so I'll give you my sort of vent.
Lis:
Okay.
Marlee:
So I said it can be understandable at times. But nevertheless, infuriating for the person being ignored.
Lis:
Totally.
Marlee:
The bonds people develop with their pets can often transcend human to human relationships.
And I think what you were saying, this sort of unconditional love.
Lis:
It's unconditional for them.
Marlee:
Yeah, exactly. It could be a sign that the partner is not having their needs or wants met by their human companion. It can certainly cause resentment towards the innocent animal.
Lis:
Totally.
Marlee:
I might fear for the animal’s safety in some situations.
Lis:
I know.
Marlee:
I think connecting with a pet makes people feel unconditional love and the acceptance.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Animals do not criticize, complain, put down, or terrorize you.
Lis:
No.
Marlee:
And it can be a sign that the relationship has really gone off course, and that issues need to be addressed with open, honest, and clear communication.
If your partner is always letting Fido come before you.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
That needs to be addressed.
Lis:
There you go.
Marlee:
Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast or to learn more about us, visit www.romancipation.com. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive notifications of new episodes right when they're released.
Also make sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook. If you're enjoying the podcast, please let us know by leaving a five-star review on Apple or a five-star rating on Spotify. Reviews let Apple know that great listeners like you enjoy our show and that helps us expand our audience. Thanks again and stay Romancipated.