S2 Episode 6: Contracts Have a Place in Romance
Episode Summary
As unromantic as it sounds, legal agreements make romantic partnerships stronger. Think of these contracts as insurance policies. Prenuptial, postnuptial and cohabitation agreements allow partners to clearly define their boundaries and expectations for one another.
Anyone who thinks that legal agreements demean a romantic relationship are looking at it from a mistaken perspective. Instead of signaling distrust or disrespect, contracts encourage partners to ask difficult questions, reveal financial philosophies and offer a fair and equitable distribution of assets, should the relationship dissolve.
Moreover, legal agreements can help protect partners from debt, ease fears over the future of dependents and make sure each person’s contributions to the family unit are recognized and valued.
At the end of each episode, Marlee and Lis vent about commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. In this episode, the ladies discuss how unfair it is when a person blames their partner for their unhappiness.
Show Notes
On the surface, the idea of contracts and love together may not make much sense. After all, contracts aren’t exactly romantic. However, the fact is, there is definitely a place for contracts in your relationship. By defining terms and agreements through contracts, it can take off a lot of pressure in certain situations.
Contracts are like insurance policies. If you and your partner can make thoughtful decisions that reflect your relationship at that time and account for future possible scenarios, you show your position and reinforce the commitment and understanding of each other’s perspective.
When most people think of contracts, prenuptial agreements for example, people often look at it through the lens of finances. But if you can’t talk about finances openly early on, you probably shouldn’t be with your partner. Setting expectations will help to avoid conflict later down the road.
If you’re being upfront and honest in your relationship, there shouldn’t be any issue cementing those expectations through a contract. Whether it’s money, property, or agreements about your children, contracts can help define what would happen in the instance of a separation and can actually make that process much less difficult.
In this episode, the vent session topic is: When people blame their partner for their unhappiness. It’s a sign of immaturity and is often used to rationalize bad behavior. Weak, lazy people do this to avoid taking responsibility for their lives. It can be used to deflect attention and is often a defense mechanism. It’s a learned behavior that gets passed on from one generation to the next.
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Visit us at www.romancipation.com
Tired of toxic, boring, or dead-end relationships? Feeling lonely or clueless when it comes to love? Need a fresh perspective? Well, you found it. This is Romancipation, a podcast that challenges conventional ideas about sex, love, dating and mating. Hosts Marlee and Lis offer candid and provocative advice about what it takes to find the partner you deserve.
It's time to rethink your approach to your love life. Take charge and get Romancipated.
Marlee:
Today's topic, Contracts Have a Place in Romance.
Yeah. This isn't very romantic. I know. Contracts in romance. Yeah. That certainly seems like those two concepts go together, but they really do.
Lis:
They do.
Marlee:
They really do. So I want to start off by first just giving the disclaimer while I am a lawyer.
I am not giving legal advice. I'm merely just sort of explaining to people the types of contracts that you absolutely can have in a romantic relationship.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
That can end up making that romantic relationship very strong. It can reinforce the bonds and it can actually really highlight. The fact that you have a strong foundation…
Lis:
You're about to make contracts sexy right now.
Marlee:
I'm going to try. People hear terms like prenuptial agreement. Post-nuptial agreement, a cohabitation agreement, healthcare proxies, end of life directives, custody agreements, guardianships, right?
None of these sound sexy, but the fact is they're all examples, Lis, of contracts that can help in a relationship. And the reason they're helpful is because they define terms and they take pressure off of each partner.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
When you have these types of agreements and understandings, each person gets heard. Each person's wants and wishes gets respected.
Lis:
Okay.
Marlee:
And I think so often in relationships, people feel uncomfortable. Kind of letting people know what their boundaries are, or what their wants are. What their needs are.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
Especially when it comes to things like finances, healthcare issues, right? And something to do with the end of their life. Heaven forbid, even custodial agreements or guardianship should something happen.
I mean, these all have a negative connotation, but they don't have to.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Again, I would always liken them to insurance policies. If you and your partner can make thoughtful decisions that reflect your relationship at that time.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
And try to take into account future possible scenarios, you have not only
bonded and that you're each really understanding the other's perspective and you know, position you're coming from, but it reinforces the commitment that you guys have to one another so much so that you're willing to actually put this in writing.
Lis:
Listen, I think that that's really good explanation of
you know why it's so important to do it, and I think a lot of the negative comes from, I mean, let's be honest, when most people think of a contract or a prenup or a postnuptial agreement, they're thinking of it from a financial perspective. And I think a lot of people have a lot of trouble talking about money and finances.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
And those are also things that you should be able to talk about and that you should have conversations about.
Marlee:
And it's a huge problem in relationships and it's a big reason why relationships break up.
Lis:
That's right. Exactly. Exactly.
Marlee:
And if you can't talk about finances, early on…
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
In a relationship and not talk about expectations.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
Then you probably shouldn't be together.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Because if you're entering into a relationship and you expect somebody to financially take care of you and they're not aware, that's your expectation.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
There's going to be conflict.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
I'm glad you said that because the fact is contracts, they're just not negative things.
They do get a bad rap. They do, but they're really helpful in letting partners establish their boundaries and like I said, enforce their personal preferences.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Which are really important legal agreements in a relationship take away feelings of mistrust and manipulation.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
They don't encourage mistrust and manipulation.
That, I think, is where people always get it backwards. Oh, you want me to sign that? What? You don't trust me,
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
It's like, no. If anything, you're putting your money where your mouth is, so to speak. If you're actually trustworthy, you shouldn't feel defensive If somebody asks you to sign something to declare the fact of what you just said.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
That you're trustworthy. If somebody said to a person with money, I'm not interested in marrying you because of your money.
Lis:
Right?
Marlee:
Well then guess what? If that's truly how they feel, then why would they take issue with signing a document that said, I'm not interested in your money, therefore, If our relationship doesn't work out based on an agreement, we've decided a certain amount of money will come to me, but the majority of the money will not.
It will stay with you.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Because I didn't enter into this relationship for the money.
Lis:
Right, exactly. Well, and I think that that's also, I mean, listen, again, we're going to talk about the financial piece of it, but I think a lot of people don't feel like if they start with. That this is for them. Like why would they need this type of protection
Marlee:
Exactly.
Lis:
If they don't have anything to offer or give. So I think that it's, yeah, I mean, I think it's not necessarily a slippery slope. I still think that this is super important…
Marlee:
Because money doesn't need to be what the contract or agreement focuses on.
Lis:
That’s right. Exactly.
Marlee:
Right. I mean, here's the deal, and this is the absolute truth.
A prenuptial agreement usually contains terms regarding property division, marital assets, debts, other types of financial issues.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Okay. When people don't come into a relationship and they don't have a lot of assets, they're like, well, Do I need a prenuptial agreement? Well, you don't technically need a prenuptial agreement if you don't have a lot of assets, but guess what?
A lot of people do enter into relationships with debt.
Lis:
Ooh, that's a great point.
Marlee:
And a prenuptial agreement can actually comment on that. So if somebody comes into a relationship with thousands of dollars of credit card debt, you know what I mean?
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
And you don't want to be responsible for that debt because you weren't in the relationship, you weren't with them when they created that debt, you should have the ability to say to them, Hey, listen, I respect your coming in with debt.
I know that if we get married that then that debt becomes partly my responsibility. I don't think it's fair.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
I had nothing to do with the creation of the debt. I'd like an agreement where we agree that if we end up splitting up, the debt you created is still your debt.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And it's not mine.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
Does that seem unreasonable?
Lis:
No. It doesn't seem unreasonable at all.
Marlee:
Would you consider it a red flag if somebody's like, no. If we get married, then you have to take on my debt. I'd run for the hills. Are you kidding me? I'd run for the hills.
Lis:
But I think a lot of people don't look at it like that.
Marlee:
Ugh.
Lis:
I don't. I don't. Listen, I think you're really practical, but I think a lot of people look at a lot of these contracts thinking this is strictly financial and…
Marlee:
But it's not.
Lis: know, I know…
Marlee:
But it's not.
Lis:
I totally get it and I think, but you made some really great points where you talked about it's not even just that it is about property, it's about, and it's about things that you could potentially acquire throughout your marriage together.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
Or your partnership.
Marlee:
Exactly.
Like a post-nuptial agreement.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Those you have to be married. A co-habitation agreement is, is if you're living together, but you're not legally married. But, so the post-nuptial agreement, basically it's a legal contract where people enter into to define sort of what the couple's finances would be.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And marital property, how it might be divided in the event of a divorce or a separation. Because the truth is, you're right, most people when they first get together, they don't actually have much, but it is very common once they're married to start accumulating assets together.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And so as they're starting to accumulate those assets, if you put in an agreement, once you guys are together, you've got a sense of how you want those divided.
Again. You both have a sense of say, right? Let's say you guys, one person started a business while you were married.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And another person stayed at home and like took care of everything else so that person could dedicate all their time to the business. It is completely fair to then say to the individual who started the business, listen, you couldn't have had the time and energy to start that business.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
Without everything I was bringing to the table. So if we ever split up, I think I'm entitled to a certain percentage of that business. Let's agree on that. And again, these are things that I think are very important. Especially when there's bad stuff that starts to happen. Like if you start to notice habits that you fear could jeopardize your financial security in the future.
Let's say that when you started together and you got married, there was no debt, but now all of a sudden, your spouse has developed gambling habit.
Lis:
Oh!
Marlee:
And they start to get debt.
Lis:
Yeah. I didn’t think about it that way.
Marlee:
You know what I mean? You have the ability, to actually in that moment be like, okay, I can see we're going down this slippery slope.
You say you're going to stop gambling or you say you're going to stop shopping,
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
But you're not. So here's the deal. We're now going to have an agreement that as of this moment forward, right? This is a post-nuptial agreement. If you get gambling debts or if you make credit card debts, shopping debts, whatever, you have to pay them.
Lis:
Does it always have to be legal? I know I'm going to, I'm like asking you this as like, I actually don't know. Does it always have to be like, I've got this notarized?
Marlee:
Well, no. I mean, listen, all of these types of agreements. You always each have to get legal advice and legal counsel to make sure that they're fair and they're equitable and everything else.
Lis:
Right. Exactly. So you can't write it on a sticky note.
Marlee:
So yes. So if the two of you just agree in principle, right. Then that's just sort of an agreement you guys have that you have to put in writing.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
But for it to actually be a legally enforceable document.
Lis:
Got it.
Marlee:
You would need to involve lawyers.
Lis:
Yeah. Makes sense.
Marlee:
But again, I think it's important to do that. I don't think that there's anything wrong, I just don't. Maybe you have a child that's special needs and it causes stress on your relationship.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
And because you know you got married before you had the child.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
And you want to make sure that should the stress end up breaking up the marriage, that each person is going to be financially responsible for that child.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I'm just saying there's lots of different things that you can be putting into these agreements. A cohabitation agreement.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
Believe it or not, when people live together, often property is accumulated.
Lis:
Believe it or not.
Marlee:
Or pets.
Lis:
No, I know. It’s true.
Marlee:
Or other things.
Lis:
Oh my gosh, yes. The pets.
Marlee:
And so if you predefine who owns what. It makes it a lot easier because then if one person wants to move out…
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
It's determined you're not fighting over a couch, you're not fighting over Fido. You know what I mean?
Lis:
Fido…I know.
Marlee:
No, seriously. Like if one person buys something during the relationship, do both people own it?
Or does the person who actually bought it own it, if they're just living together?
Lis:
I don't know. I think those are really good questions.
Marlee:
What if it's somebody used their personal savings? Property before the relationship.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Somebody brought like their record collection that they'd been building for 25 years before they started living with somebody.
Lis:
No, I know.
Marlee:
You know what I mean?
Lis:
You hear about all of these different things.
Marlee:
That's right.
Lis:
And animals in particular. I feel like I've heard a lot about shared custody of animals like post breakups. I've actually even heard about you come to the relationship with a pet, but then the other partner becomes the primary caretaker of the animal…
Marlee:
And tries to claim custody of it.
Lis:
Yes. Yes. Custody.
Marlee:
But if you've made that clear, listen, if we break up, Fido is mine. Fluffy is yours. Even expenses, like how you cover expenses.
Lis:
Yep.
Marlee:
How they're going to be paid. Is it going to be each of you take a certain percentage of your paycheck to cover rent?
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
Or is it that you're going to just pool your resources right together to pay things?
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
These are things that if you guys jointly agree and you have it written down and you have it formalized.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
When you then end the relationship, if somebody chooses to leave, it's so much cleaner and so much more rational. And it's fair and it equitable because you both had a voice.
Lis:
Right.
You both had representation.
Lis:
In marriage, not necessarily.
Marlee:
Oh my God. But it tells you so much about people.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
When you enter into these kinds of agreements, it gives you a really good insight into somebody's character. Right? Somebody is like, oh well. I mean, no, you can't have that.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
You're like, Hmm, interesting.
What else would you think I couldn't have? Or, oh, well I expect you to pay for that. It really starts important conversations…
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
That people aren't often willing to have, even though they should.
Lis:
Ooh, do you think that it's a really good opportunity to start? You just said it, but like that is a really good opening to start some of these conversations that are actually…
for a lot of people, very hard to have, and I think that almost if you preface it with like a, Hey, listen, this is super common in my family, we would like to do, you know, a cohabitation agreement. Like even if you just start it like that, I don't know.
Marlee:
Yeah, it might be, listen, I would always say you kind of ask financial questions and get somebody's financial philosophies before you ever get into a cohabitation situation.
Lis:
I don't think people do.
Marlee:
I know, I agree. And we're actually going to do a podcast about it.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
Because it's important. But I do think that what you said it is, if you haven't had those conversations, this is a good way of sort of opening the topic. I mean, listen, the fact is whether people realize it or not, they have unspoken agreements all the time.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
Right? Like, who's going to take care of certain cleaning chores? Who's going to care for the children? Who's going to take care of the vehicles, pay the bills. A contract is just a formalized agreement.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
People make unspoken agreements all the time, and what happens is, often resentment comes because expectations are put onto somebody.
Lis:
Yes. That's right.
Marlee:
Without actually letting the person know what your expectation is and the person saying, I accept what you're asking of me.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
This is a great way, again, to bring these issues out there so that you can actually say, well, what are your expectations of me in this more formalized situation?
Lis:
No, I think that's great.
Marlee:
Cause living together and marriage are formal situations and they have real life consequences.
Lis:
Yep. You're so right.
Marlee:
So you should be asking these questions and if you're scared to ask the question, red flag, you shouldn't be with this person.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
If you're afraid of their answer. Red flag, you shouldn't be with this person.
Lis:
Great point.
Marlee:
If somebody's going to get mad at you for asking these questions, red flag.
Lis:
Right.
Marlee:
I mean, listen, it is so. Again, important that you advocate for what you want and what you need. And if you are a Romancipated person, you're going to want an equitable situation. Meaning you're going to want what is fair.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
Okay. And if the other person has a problem with that, yikes.
Lis:
Exactly right.
Marlee:
I mean, run.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
Don't walk, run.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
If a person takes issue, you already have your answer.
Lis:
Yes. You're so right. Good points, great points.
Marlee:
So please, contracts do have a place in romance and anybody who says that they don't and they're not romantic, and now all of a sudden you're accusing them of something.
I liken it to the person who tells you, trust me, I'm a trustworthy person. That means that they're not, because remember, words are free, actions are costly. They've got to prove it through continuous and consistent action, not just through words. I'm a nice person, Uhuh. I don't care what you say. I have to see it to believe it.
Lis:
That's right.
Marlee:
And guess what? There is nothing wrong with this aspect of self-preservation. If you've worked hard and you've saved or been thoughtful or been responsible or made sacrifices, your partner should respect that. Your partner should be willing to accept it. Your partner should see it as a really healthy boundary that you've set and communicated.
And if they take issue with it, that's a problem.
It's venting time with Marlee and Lis.
Marlee:
It's that time when Lis and I get to vent our frustrations over commonly experienced issues in romantic relationships. Today's topic, When People Blame Their Partner for Their Unhappiness.
Lis:
Why? Ugh, why?
Marlee:
Okay, so like, do you mind if I take this one?
Lis:
Please.
Marlee:
Okay.
So I think this is very typical for a lot of people, instead of taking personal responsibility for their choices and how their life ended up, they placed the blame for their unhappiness on their partner.
Lis:
Great point.
Marlee:
It's a sign of an immature person and I think it is such a red flag in the relationship.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
It's used to justify and rationalize bad behavior like overspending, abuse, neglect, and infidelity.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
It shows a lack of self-awareness. If your partner is really the cause of your dissatisfaction, then end the relationship.
Lis:
Yeah.
Marlee:
Why stay with a person that makes you miserable?
Lis:
That’s right.
Marlee:
It's easier to scapegoat the partner than to deal with the person's own issues.
Lis:
Of course it is.
Marlee:
It creates extreme resentment on both sides.
Lis:
Yes, right. Of course.
Marlee:
The person who's being blamed and the person who is doing the blaming.
Lis:
That's right. Yep.
Marlee:
It is a learned behavior that I absolutely think is often passed on to the next generation if they witness this.
Lis:
That is a great point.
Marlee:
I think it's also a sign of a weak or a lazy individual.
Just take personal responsibility for the state of your life.
Lis:
Yes.
Marlee:
Even if you actually think your partner is the cause of your misery, then like I said, leave.
Lis:
That's right. You have control.
Marlee:
That’s right. Thank you. I would love to hear yours.
Lis:
Okay, so I think that we need to see ourselves as better than we truly are, like not flawed, and so it's easier, like you said, to point out the
problem and make it about somebody else, blaming others, distracts us from self-reflection and taking responsibility for our own actions.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
Like you said, maybe we need to see ourselves as better than we really are, so we point out how unhappy this other person is making us and the cause of our misery.
I think that they have low self-esteem and admitting that they're wrong is really hard for them to do.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
Maybe they're trying to deflect attention away from something bad that they've done.
Marlee:
Oh.
Lis:
Like cheating. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's a defense mechanism and I think that's what they saw in their home as children.
I think you're totally right. I think it's a learned behavior and I think that it gets passed on from generation to generation.
Marlee:
Yes.
Lis:
And you see how easily it can just become ingrained in you. It's like a disease.
Marlee:
Yes, yes. It just gets passed on. Absolutely.
Lis:
Ugh. Yeah.
Marlee:
Lis and I want to thank you so much for joining us this week.
To view the complete show notes and a recap of today's podcast or to learn more about us visit. www.romancipation.com. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you can receive notifications of new episodes right when they're released. Also, make sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook.
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